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Author Topic:   Choosing to believe
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 61 of 90 (716711)
01-20-2014 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Phat
01-20-2014 2:35 PM


Re: Choosing To Believe
perhaps i felt heat from it, though i never actually touched it. so...yes.
Sounds like you inferred it was hot because it was giving off heat. Doesn't sounds like you had much of a choice either. Could you have chosen to believe it was cold?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Phat, posted 01-20-2014 2:35 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Phat, posted 01-20-2014 3:32 PM Modulous has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 62 of 90 (716716)
01-20-2014 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Modulous
01-20-2014 3:08 PM


Re: Choosing To Believe
what if I had never actually felt heat from the fire but had seen pictures of fire and heard stories that it was hot?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Modulous, posted 01-20-2014 3:08 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Modulous, posted 01-20-2014 3:40 PM Phat has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 63 of 90 (716718)
01-20-2014 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Phat
01-20-2014 3:32 PM


Re: Choosing To Believe
what if I had never actually felt heat from the fire but had seen pictures of fire and heard stories that it was hot?
Do the stories and pictures cause you to believe?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Phat, posted 01-20-2014 3:32 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 01-20-2014 4:47 PM Modulous has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 64 of 90 (716724)
01-20-2014 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Modulous
01-20-2014 3:40 PM


Re: Choosing To Believe
It depends on who is telling me the stories. I tend to trust stories from people whom I trust.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Modulous, posted 01-20-2014 3:40 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Modulous, posted 01-20-2014 5:32 PM Phat has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 65 of 90 (716732)
01-20-2014 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
01-20-2014 4:47 PM


Re: Choosing To Believe
It depends on who is telling me the stories. I tend to trust stories from people whom I trust.
Could you choose to believe fire was hot (or cold) on the word of a known pathological liar?
I don't mean 'could you choose to trust such a person' but would you actually hold the belief 'fire is cold' by choice?
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

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 Message 64 by Phat, posted 01-20-2014 4:47 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Phat, posted 01-21-2014 5:12 AM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 66 of 90 (716757)
01-21-2014 5:12 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Modulous
01-20-2014 5:32 PM


Re: Choosing To Believe
nope. I would need evidence. Everyone knows that fire is supposed to be hot.

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 Message 67 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-21-2014 11:13 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 71 by rstrats, posted 03-10-2023 9:07 PM Phat has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 67 of 90 (716780)
01-21-2014 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Phat
01-21-2014 5:12 AM


Re: Choosing To Believe
Everyone knows that fire is supposed to be hot.
Just sayin'...

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Raphael
Member (Idle past 513 days)
Posts: 173
From: Southern California, United States
Joined: 09-29-2007


(1)
Message 68 of 90 (716855)
01-21-2014 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Modulous
01-20-2014 1:28 PM


Re: Choosing To Believe
Modulous writes:
So you chose to believe that fire is hot?
In essence, yes and no. You may decide that fire is hot based on tangible experience (touching the flame, feeling it's heat) or you may believe that it is hot from observing its effects. In the second case, you have not personally touched the flame or felt its heat, but you have observed its effects, and so believe the fact that "it is hot" to be true.
Regards!
- Raph

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jar
Member (Idle past 445 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 69 of 90 (716881)
01-22-2014 9:10 AM


Choosing to believe
There are Dallas Cowboy and Houston Astro and Cub fans.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
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Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 70 of 90 (716931)
01-22-2014 4:10 PM


Believing to Choose
I choose to believe and I believe I can choose.
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 153 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 71 of 90 (908330)
03-10-2023 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Phat
01-21-2014 5:12 AM


Re: Choosing To Believe
How would you know when you had evidence?

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 Message 66 by Phat, posted 01-21-2014 5:12 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 03-11-2023 4:05 PM rstrats has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 72 of 90 (908340)
03-11-2023 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by rstrats
03-10-2023 9:07 PM


Re: Choosing To Believe
I suppose when I threw something in the fire and it burned up. I chose to believe initially because the fire consumed me. Not propaganda, though Tangle will argue I NEVER would have become a Christian in another culture, though many of those Catholics never got the fire to begin with. They went through the rituals, bells, smells, kneeling, etc. They may have had good Priests with the fire, though in the Catholic tradition being "on fire" is rare.
If they caught it (The Spirit/Fire) at all, it would have come from either another Catholic with the Spirit or a Protestant friend. Rarer still, God Himself could have chosen them God does NOT personally intervene with every human on the planet. He prefers that we help spread the fire in our own unique ways. Having said that, I believe that God chooses everyone yet we have to choose Him back. The whole planet is not simply automatically saved. (Though perhaps some day He could step in and do that too!)
I have found that people who are lukewarm either eventually warm up to God(Jesus) or they get colder and become antitheists. Which of course is a form of the antichrist spirit. Just sayin....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by rstrats, posted 03-10-2023 9:07 PM rstrats has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Tangle, posted 03-11-2023 5:10 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 75 by rstrats, posted 03-12-2023 2:52 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 73 of 90 (908341)
03-11-2023 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by jar
01-22-2014 9:10 AM


Re: Choosing to believe
jar writes:
There are Dallas Cowboy and Houston Astro and Cub fans.
True.
There are also many paths up the mountain but there is One top. Not many.
Imagine a Guru living in a hut at the top. When He looks down the mountain He sees many many paths up to the top. Meeting Him is the goal of climbing the mountain by whatever path you have.
Surely you wont argue that there are three or more Gurus at the top wearing their teams colors!

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 Message 69 by jar, posted 01-22-2014 9:10 AM jar has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9522
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 74 of 90 (908343)
03-11-2023 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
03-11-2023 4:05 PM


Re: Choosing To Believe
Moronic, self-delusion.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 03-11-2023 4:05 PM Phat has not replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 153 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 75 of 90 (908357)
03-12-2023 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
03-11-2023 4:05 PM


Re: Choosing To Believe
Phat,
Modulous asked you: "...would you actually hold the belief 'fire is cold' by choice?"
You replied - "nope. I would need evidence."
I assumed you were saying that you would need evidence in order to choose to believe that fire is cold. I asked you how you would know when you had the evidence?
You replied - "I suppose when I threw something in the fire and it burned up."
How would that be evidence that fire is cold?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 03-11-2023 4:05 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Phat, posted 03-12-2023 6:37 PM rstrats has replied
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 03-14-2023 2:25 PM rstrats has replied

  
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