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Author Topic:   Choosing to believe
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 24 of 90 (397343)
04-25-2007 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
04-03-2007 5:26 PM


jar,
re: “Of course you can choose to believe... It is really easy.”
If you are implying that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, perhaps you can help me. I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that - for example to effect a belief that it is possible for me to become a more compassionate person. Since you seem to be implying that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to say, “OK, at this moment I have a lack of belief that ”x’ exists or is true, but I CHOOSE to believe that ”x’ exists or is true and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that ”x’ exists or is true?
Maybe you could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your technique. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a leprechaun is “a fairy peculiar to Ireland, who appeared in the form of an old man of minute stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron.” So, assuming that you don’t already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 04-03-2007 5:26 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by jar, posted 04-25-2007 4:16 PM rstrats has replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 26 of 90 (397370)
04-25-2007 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by jar
04-25-2007 4:16 PM


Re: It is really very simple.
jar,
re: “Did you read all of Message 9? ”
Indeed I did, at least 3 times. And it appeared to me that you were implying that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things. I don’t think that that is possible. I don’t think that a person can consciously do that. However, if it is possible, I would really like to see someone demonstrate that ability so that I could know that it can be done. To that end, I asked you to CHOOSE to believe that leprechauns exist, and to explain how you were able to be convinced without a doubt that they do. Apparently you were not able to do that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by jar, posted 04-25-2007 4:16 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 04-25-2007 5:32 PM rstrats has not replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 71 of 90 (908330)
03-10-2023 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Phat
01-21-2014 5:12 AM


Re: Choosing To Believe
How would you know when you had evidence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Phat, posted 01-21-2014 5:12 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 03-11-2023 4:05 PM rstrats has replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 75 of 90 (908357)
03-12-2023 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
03-11-2023 4:05 PM


Re: Choosing To Believe
Phat,
Modulous asked you: "...would you actually hold the belief 'fire is cold' by choice?"
You replied - "nope. I would need evidence."
I assumed you were saying that you would need evidence in order to choose to believe that fire is cold. I asked you how you would know when you had the evidence?
You replied - "I suppose when I threw something in the fire and it burned up."
How would that be evidence that fire is cold?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 03-11-2023 4:05 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Phat, posted 03-12-2023 6:37 PM rstrats has replied
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 03-14-2023 2:25 PM rstrats has replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 77 of 90 (908362)
03-13-2023 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Phat
03-12-2023 6:37 PM


Re: Choosing To Believe
Phat,
re: "I didn't follow that train of thought did. I?"
So it would seem.
re: "My new answer is if the room gets cold then the fire is cold. This is self evident"
Ok, you accept that as evidence that fire is cold. At that point what is the state of your mind with regard to having a belief - a conviction - that fire is cold?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Phat, posted 03-12-2023 6:37 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Phat, posted 03-13-2023 8:41 AM rstrats has replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 80 of 90 (908380)
03-13-2023 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Phat
03-13-2023 8:41 AM


Re: Choosing To Believe
Phat,
re: "In my opinion, belief (mine at least) is not simply yin and yang."
So then what was your state of mind with regard to belief when you got evidence that fire was cold?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Phat, posted 03-13-2023 8:41 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 88 of 90 (908901)
03-23-2023 6:21 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Phat
03-14-2023 2:25 PM


Re: Choosing To Believe
You replied - "I suppose when I threw something in the fire and it burned up."

So I ask again, how would that be evidence that fire is cold?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 03-14-2023 2:25 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 03-23-2023 10:11 AM rstrats has replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 90 of 90 (908908)
03-23-2023 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Phat
03-23-2023 10:11 AM


Re: Choosing To Believe
Phat,
re: "...move on."
Since it's apparent you're not going to answer my question, I shall do that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 03-23-2023 10:11 AM Phat has not replied

  
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