Origins of Hell

The Pure Land example was an ADDITION to the earlier reference to the heavens that were given in the first supporting post. "Heaven" of the sort that occurs on the wheel of life does just fine as a synonym for "paradise." It's not the heaven of God but a place of rather human type pleasures. To that I added the mention of Pure Land paradise.What is your problem with the word "sin" -- it's a good old English word for misdeeds of all sorts, and predates Christianity.I HAVE supported the claim of multiple hells. The one-hell reference in Hinduism you keep making so much of Message 7 is within a reference that goes on to discuss multiple hells, which I quote in answer to your complaint in a following post Message 9. {Edit= I went back and bolded the plural "hells."} The fact of a hell at all was my focus there. By now you should have that plus the multiple hells well enough documented.You are making up this supposed contradiction between the many demon gods of the religions and the statement that a god of high virtue rules Hindu hell. All I said was that these religions recognize many demon gods, I didn't specify their activities.I was unable to find illustrations of the calibre I remember seeing, many pictures of snarling ferocious gods with strings of skulls around them. I would expect you to be familiar with such pictures yourself. But for some reason I haven't found the best representatives. Although I think I found enough for my purposes.Also you got the quote wrong somehow: It should be "Unlike in other religions, the hell of Hindu religion is NOT ruled by an evil persona, BUT by Yama, a god of highest virtue."It turns out I said "versions" not "some versions" in my very first post Message 3. Same meaning.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I don’t see any reference to ”heavens’ in that post, does it mention any branch of Buddhism other than Pure Land that has a ”paradise’? So the comparison really isn’t all that strong then? But Pure Land, such as Amitabhas Sukhaviti, is different from the ”paradise’ of the wheel of life. In the wheel of life version you are reborn on earth, whereas if you are fortunate enough to go to Amitabha’s heaven you will got to Nirvana eventually, you are not reborn, so I don’t see the comparison. Exactly, it is a good old English word! Where is a demon god likely to dwell? I must have typed it out incorrectly, but it still contradicts your claim. If hell is not ruled by an evil persona, where do the ugly demon gods dwell?You don’t half edit posts a lot, it is a good idea to type up in a word processing package first then cut and paste, saves a lot of time.Anyway, thanks for the additional information, I am sure a lot of readeres are clearer now.Brian.

1. Since Faith made a statement in a notdebative manner in which she admits a limited amount of knowledge I see it at least a gray area where a simple nonconfrontive and nonaccusitive request for documentation would have been the appropriate response of yours to keep the peace and make the thing run smoothly.2. Item 4 also states that reasonable argument is sufficient in lieu of documentation. In this case her statement indicated reasonable reason for her to make it. Then if someone wishes to challenge, again, a simple request is the way to go so as not to inflame the apponent. More inflamible stuff, my friend. My record so far speaks for itself that I am as even handed as anyone here as attested to by nearly all who've commented about it.

Imagine you are God. Perfect in all things.
Creator of all you behold. All Perfection.Oops, except that patch aver there that people call hell.
That place that is such a thorn in your ass because Hell is where your mistakes are. All the souls you screwed up on when you were creating all those other Perfect things.Come on guys. If God is Perfect there can be no Hell.
God does not screw up.God owns all the universe. He is not likely to give up any of it to a Satan to rule over. God is too greedy for that.This is the logical answer and if you want to test the theory, just apply it to yourself.Whatever you do for a living, would you collect your failures and keep them at home beside your good accomplishments. Of course not.
Why would we think that God would.
What percentage of your house would you give up if as some think there are more failures than successes.
How little of the universe would God be left with if this were so. Come on!!!Regards
DL

Yes. Our children will always have a home here, whether they are "good" or "bad". 20%.

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By the time of Alexander the Great the Greeks' idea of Hades had evolved into a picture featuring two distinct compartments: the Elysian Fields (Paradise), an eternal picnic for the blessed, and Tartarus, a place of torment for evil persons. From the Greeks the idea entered Judaism.Yeshua's story of the rich man and Lazarus adopts the Greek model completely. The only difference is that the name of one locale gets a Jewish makeover: the poor man is said to find peace 'at Abraham's side' rather than in the Elysian Fields.__

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ArcherAll species are transitional.

Ringo
If evil is as rampant as some believe your 20% might not fit.
That seems like a lousy score for God though.ArcherAre we thinking that God sits back happily looking at His garbage in the back corner of Heaven.
I think not. I think that there are no failures from God.Regards
DL

(You can use the little green reply button in the lower right-hand corner of every post to reply to a specific post. That way the poster knows you're talking to them. ) Did you forget your own question already? In Message 19, you asked:

quote:

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... would you collect your failures and keep them at home beside your good accomplishments.

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I answered, "Yes I would." The number 20% is arbitrary. The point is that your assumption is wrong. God probably would reserve part of His house for the failures of His children, just as I do reserve part of my house for my children, pass or fail.Your argument against Hell fails.

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My post took no issue with anyone's metaphysics. I was addressing the question raised in the OP from a historical and cultural perspective.What are the origins of hell as an idea? In Western culture the diea comes mainly from Greek myths about Paradise and Tartarus. The idea passed into Judaism in the Maccabean period and into Christianity after that.Hence the fact that we have a thread on this subject at all. Why
are we discussing it? Because the empirical evidence for an afterlife is so everwhelming? No. Because the idea of eternal reward and punishment handed out by a personal deity is a longstanding feature of Western culture.__

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ArcherAll species are transitional.

Your right the carrot and stick philosophy is old and strong.
Jesus fought His strongest against this policy. Turn the other cheek.
His forgiving nature should have given us a hint as to the depth of God's forgiveness. We missed it.
Jesus tried to civilize a nation that was not quite ready for it. His countrymen where too happy to stone anyone for anything. Life was cheap.
A Hell to me is a non starter. Hell would be a depository of God's mistakes. He cannot do mistakes so how then can a hell exist.Regards
DL

Greatest I am,Please reread the OP (Message 1) and if you still desire to revive this thread, please keep in line with the OP. So far members have been trying to get you back on track, but you continue down your own path.If you continue to post off topic, you will suffer a 48 hour suspension.Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.
Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour timeout.Thank you

Absolutely right , I digress too much.I am rushed at some points in time and may not focus as well as I could. Please remember that to me this is a is sort of a no brain er. This of course is from my own point of view.I stand chastised.If I may take advantage of our contact, it happens that I was going to check with you to see if the Vatican gets involved with the Internet or forums etc..Regards
DL

GIA, the reason we ask that posters take responses to an Admin message to the Moderation thread is so that posts are not wasted answering complaints or off topic questions.Now we've wasted two posts that don't further the discussion.As far as the vatican goes, I have no idea.Since I did not have the correct link in my first message, I will not suspend you; but if you wish to make any response concerning this Admin message, please take it to the Moderation Thread. This time the link is correct and I will follow through if you respond in this thread.Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.
Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour timeout.Thank you