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Author Topic:   Sinning? In your dreams...
CK
Member (Idle past 4150 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 151 of 177 (326353)
06-26-2006 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by iano
06-26-2006 8:28 AM


Re: God speaks to Larni in a dream (cos God does that kind of thing)
What a load of rubbish - I lived in Eire for a year and your claims about the knowledge of people is just pure rubbish. Oh sure young people go to dossers mass but to claim that people don't have much of an understanding of the gospels or that Christianity is not still a large influence on the political and social landscape of Ireland is just bollocks - total bollocks.
As with your other responses what you are actually saying is "they don't believe like me so....".
Edited by CK, : No reason given.

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 Message 149 by iano, posted 06-26-2006 8:28 AM iano has replied

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Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 152 of 177 (326356)
06-26-2006 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by iano
06-26-2006 8:32 AM


Perhaps I did need to clarify a bit.
What Does It Mean When You Dream You Are Falling?
Most falling dreams occur just as we drift off to sleep. We may dream we slip on a banana, trip on some stairs, or even fall a long way from a bridge or mountain, only to awaken with a startle just as we are about to hit the ground. Curiously, falling dreams are not considered to be very meaningful psychologically - unless they are recurring and emotional. (See Out of Control) Research shows that the reason we have falling dreams is because, as we fall asleep, our sense of balance switches from being oriented to the real world to being oriented to the dream world. Even though we are laying down in our beds, in our dreams we are "up and about"- running, flying, leaping, walking, and talking. We have a different sense of balance in dreams. When we dream we are falling, especially just as we are falling asleep, we likely are tumbling into our new sense of balance.
The requested page can't be found.

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CK
Member (Idle past 4150 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 153 of 177 (326357)
06-26-2006 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Larni
06-22-2006 6:08 AM


Larni writes:
After watching an episode of Friends where Joey was in a porno, I dreamt that I was in one too, this very night. It took place in a field behind a church I used to live near which had lions climbing all over it.
I then had to explain this to my partner who turned into my mum. The locale news paper was there as was Lea of off Big Brother.
The lions represent sexual desire - they are trying to get into the church (which is a sign of sexual repression). You are having sex behind the church rather than in it because of sexual repression. Your Partner turning into your mother is a sign that you wish to have a sex change operation.
What you need to do is go to the church and have sex in it - this will cure all of your problems.
That will be 350 please.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Larni, posted 06-22-2006 6:08 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Larni, posted 06-26-2006 9:12 AM CK has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1963 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 154 of 177 (326359)
06-26-2006 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by CK
06-26-2006 8:36 AM


Re: God speaks to Larni in a dream (cos God does that kind of thing)
I've lived here nearly all my life. And in recent times I have had many opportunities to pose the question "What is the gospel?" The result has invariably been minor variations on that pub-quiz answer
RC is dead here. It entered its death throes a long time ago. Don't mistake a gaggle of sheep conforming to the powers that were as indicative of steeping. You (or anyone else) might try asking the next bunch of ex-pat paddies you come across to converse amongst themselves in Irish. "12 years of schooling in Irish and I can hardly mumble a word" will be the cause behind their obvious embarrassment - then they will laugh the request off.
A steeping that doesn't soak is no steeping at all. That's semantics.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

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 Message 163 by Heathen, posted 06-26-2006 1:36 PM iano has replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 155 of 177 (326361)
06-26-2006 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by CK
06-26-2006 8:49 AM


Well if I need to have sex with a church and have just spent 350 to find that out (anything that expensive must be good!) then I probably should!
Can I pay in installments? I seem to be giving money away to People In Authority more and more these days.
Seriously though you make a damn good point. When people get told it's true by People In Authority (Doctors, Priests, Charlatans etc) they tend to believe it as Gospel (excuse the pun).
Hmm, what was that Milgram experiment again?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by CK, posted 06-26-2006 8:49 AM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by CK, posted 06-26-2006 9:22 AM Larni has replied
 Message 157 by iano, posted 06-26-2006 9:34 AM Larni has replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4150 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 156 of 177 (326363)
06-26-2006 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Larni
06-26-2006 9:12 AM


quote:
When people get told it's true by People In Authority (Doctors, Priests, Charlatans etc) they tend to believe it as Gospel (excuse the pun).
It's very true - I've always had an interest in "the con" and it's amazing what you can get people to do if can make them believe that a) you are an expert or someone "in authority" and b) you know what you are talking about.
I did some work in the past for corporations looking at the security of their information systems. However I am not a hacker, I used to take care of the social engineering part. A phone is all you need to get information out of most people (and a pretense that you are phoning them from a different part of the same building).
Darren Brown Also did a great show last year where he went to the states and got a group of atheists to have a "religious" experience - people are easy to fool (groups of people are even easier).
quote:
Christian Evangelism
Derren performed instant conversions on a group consisting of members of the public, all of whom were atheists. After the first instant conversion many of the group chose to leave, concerned by what they had just witnessed. Derren then proceeded to convert another individual and then the remainder of the group at once. In each case, he caused the participants to at least accept the possibility that there was a God, when previously they had all refused to do so. At the end of the show, a notice on screen announced that the participants had all been "de-converted" before they left.
Edited by CK, : No reason given.
Edited by CK, : No reason given.

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 Message 155 by Larni, posted 06-26-2006 9:12 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Larni, posted 06-26-2006 10:18 AM CK has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1963 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 157 of 177 (326370)
06-26-2006 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Larni
06-26-2006 9:12 AM


When people get told it's true by People In Authority (Doctors, Priests, Charlatans etc) they tend to believe it as Gospel (excuse the pun).
Your list isn't as exhaustive as it could be. But I agree.

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 Message 155 by Larni, posted 06-26-2006 9:12 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Larni, posted 06-26-2006 10:21 AM iano has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 158 of 177 (326378)
06-26-2006 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Larni
06-26-2006 8:45 AM


Falling
Interesting!

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Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 159 of 177 (326393)
06-26-2006 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by CK
06-26-2006 9:22 AM


CK writes:
Darren Brown Also did a great show last year where he went to the states and got a group of atheists to have a "religious" experience - people are easy to fool (groups of people are even easier).
Have you seen the one where he gets a bunch of executives and managers, weeds out the non-sugestable and gets three of the group to commit armed robbery (in a controlled situation-although very high on verisimilartude) on a London street?
CK writes:
...amazing what you can get people to do if can make them believe...
Very true. In my line of work the belief the individual has defines reality. If someone believes you are thier superior (for example), then to them you are.
But then you have to think humanity would not have leaders if this was not the case.
Sorry, going way off topic here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by CK, posted 06-26-2006 9:22 AM CK has replied

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 Message 161 by CK, posted 06-26-2006 10:23 AM Larni has replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 160 of 177 (326396)
06-26-2006 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by iano
06-26-2006 9:34 AM


One could then argue that what we tell ourself (i.e. our subjective experience e.g. dreams and interpretations) is open to erro too.

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 Message 157 by iano, posted 06-26-2006 9:34 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
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CK
Member (Idle past 4150 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 161 of 177 (326399)
06-26-2006 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Larni
06-26-2006 10:18 AM


Larni writes:
In my line of work the belief the individual has defines reality.
I do something similar in my research. I look at how people's perception of temporality are affected by their use of technology and in turn how their existing perceptions of temporality affect their assessment of a success of a technology.
So if you give someone a computer to perform a process - I'm not really interested in if it does make the process quicker but rather if the person using it *thinks* it does and how they assess the difference.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Larni, posted 06-26-2006 10:18 AM Larni has replied

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iano
Member (Idle past 1963 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 162 of 177 (326408)
06-26-2006 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Larni
06-26-2006 10:21 AM


One could then argue that what we tell ourself (i.e. our subjective experience e.g. dreams and interpretations) is open to erro too.
Of course. The foundational assumptions influence the interpretation. Each to their own. You hold to psychological grounds when it comes to evaluating dreams - for such grounds are your foundational assumptions. Mine lie elsewhere. No one can prove their foundational assumptions however. Even the foundational assumption that empirical evidence supports a theory unto (virtual) fact is a undemonstrable foundational assumption
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

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 Message 160 by Larni, posted 06-26-2006 10:21 AM Larni has replied

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Heathen
Member (Idle past 1305 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 163 of 177 (326482)
06-26-2006 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by iano
06-26-2006 8:55 AM


Re: God speaks to Larni in a dream (cos God does that kind of thing)
But Iano, it is wrong to say that Irish society is not steeped in christianity. It may well be that is has reduced to a facade, a layer of hypocracy to keep the parish priest from breathing down your neck, but it is everywhere you look.
you still see statues of mary in peoples gardens, all (catholic) children are marched off to confession from age 4, all these children make their communion and confirmation, When I visit hom,e I see people reflexively bless themselves when they see a Hearse/Ambulance/firengine or pass a church. The 6 O Clock news is still preceded by the angelus, on ash wednesday you still see a large amount of people walking round with little ash crosses on their foreheads.
It may not often be genuine belief but the society there stinks (and I mean Stinks) of christianity/catholiscism.
Your definition of a christian is a faith alone one right? so.. if a catholic believes that christ died on the cross for him/her they are by your definition a christian regardlesss of their rosary beads, confirmation rosettes, or habitual blessing themselves.
My experience of people back home is that there are still a lot of people who believe this.
Christianity still affects, to a large degree, irish society.

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 Message 154 by iano, posted 06-26-2006 8:55 AM iano has replied

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Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 164 of 177 (326517)
06-26-2006 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by CK
06-26-2006 10:23 AM


CK writes:
I'm not really interested in if it does make the process quicker but rather if the person using it *thinks* it does and how they assess the difference.
It's a funny world; in my line I too don't really care whether what the client believes is true is actually true, just that s/he reacts to it as if it were true.
So a guy worried that he will screw up his presentation will react as if he already has (thus increaseing his chance of screwing it up).
My role at work is to get him/her to examine the availible evidence and draw a conclusion from that and draw away from 'what they believe' logic.
Kinda like EvC, but here it's just to exercise,

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by CK, posted 06-26-2006 10:23 AM CK has not replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 165 of 177 (326519)
06-26-2006 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by iano
06-26-2006 10:40 AM


Iano writes:
Even the foundational assumption that empirical evidence supports a theory unto (virtual) fact is a undemonstrable foundational assumption
If that is true I suggest we turn our brains to 'off'

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by iano, posted 06-26-2006 10:40 AM iano has not replied

  
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