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Author Topic:   Take the Atheist Challenge!!!
Zachariah
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 321 (106096)
05-06-2004 10:03 PM


I propose to all of you who claim athiest views to take a challenge. You must be truthful and courageous though. I say that many of you can be converted to christianity and will be. You must be honest with yourself and willing to truthfully try. Not just talk it but walk it. I challenge you all to read the book of John start to finish as many times as you can for one week. Every day before you start reading and after you finish, say a prayer asking for direction, proof, if you're real then answer me in some way, etc.... Let me add God doesn't speak verbaly anymore as far as anyone can say so I wouldn't expect something like a loud voice to speak to you. But when you have an open mind and are willing to allow God to speak to you in his way he will. It may be a friend calling you up and talking about the very thing you prayed about giving you the answer to a question or something you are reading. If you ask for him he will be there for you. Be ready. And let me know one week after you post your reply how it's going. God be with you. In Christ our savior. -Zachariah
This message has been edited by Zachariah, 05-06-2004 09:04 PM

Replies to this message:
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 Message 5 by Rrhain, posted 05-07-2004 4:05 AM Zachariah has replied
 Message 7 by coffee_addict, posted 05-07-2004 4:39 AM Zachariah has not replied
 Message 8 by crashfrog, posted 05-07-2004 5:31 AM Zachariah has not replied
 Message 10 by fnord, posted 05-07-2004 7:33 AM Zachariah has not replied
 Message 13 by cromwell, posted 05-07-2004 6:19 PM Zachariah has not replied
 Message 55 by MonkeyBoy, posted 05-10-2004 8:58 AM Zachariah has not replied
 Message 125 by purpledawn, posted 05-11-2004 9:24 AM Zachariah has replied
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AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 2 of 321 (106100)
05-06-2004 10:19 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 3 of 321 (106104)
05-06-2004 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Zachariah
05-06-2004 10:03 PM


Ok, you're on. I will do what you proposed. I will be as objective as I can be. Unfortunately, I have finals. I will get back to you about a week from now. Oh, and you have my word that I will be as impartial as I can possibly be.

The Laminator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Zachariah, posted 05-06-2004 10:03 PM Zachariah has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by mike the wiz, posted 05-06-2004 10:28 PM coffee_addict has not replied

mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 4 of 321 (106105)
05-06-2004 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by coffee_addict
05-06-2004 10:27 PM


Concentrate on that first part, which talks about the word becoming flesh = the living word.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by coffee_addict, posted 05-06-2004 10:27 PM coffee_addict has not replied

Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 5 of 321 (106198)
05-07-2004 4:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Zachariah
05-06-2004 10:03 PM


You do realize, Zachariah, that pretty much every single atheist has already done that.
You see, atheists are, by and large, raised by theists. They went to church, read the appropriate holy book, did all the rituals, and truly believed.
But it didn't take. They eventually came to realize that it was all a load of hooey. The book didn't provide insight, the rituals did nothing, and that "feeling inside" was nothing more than them convincing themselves that they were supposed to be feeling something even though it wasn't there.
How absolutely arrogant and obnoxious of you to assume that atheists came to their position because they're lazy.
How about this: Why don't you, for a month, give up god. No reading the Bible, no praying, no invoking his name, no thinking about him, no nothing. Just live your life without any reference to supernatural entities.
Do you really think you'll come to atheism that way?
By the way: If you really think your core values can be changed just by reading a single book in a week, then those really weren't your core values to begin with.
And finally, why doesn't god speak in a loud voice? If that's what it takes to convince someone, why not do it? If you truly loved someone and wanted nothing but the best and you knew that the only way to reach that person was to do something big and dramatic, wouldn't you do it?

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Zachariah, posted 05-06-2004 10:03 PM Zachariah has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by coffee_addict, posted 05-07-2004 4:32 AM Rrhain has replied
 Message 12 by PecosGeorge, posted 05-07-2004 11:00 AM Rrhain has replied
 Message 14 by Zachariah, posted 05-07-2004 6:44 PM Rrhain has replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 6 of 321 (106201)
05-07-2004 4:32 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Rrhain
05-07-2004 4:05 AM


Rrhain writes:
You see, atheists are, by and large, raised by theists. They went to church, read the appropriate holy book, did all the rituals, and truly believed.
Have I ever mentioned the fact that I was a devout catholic that prayed everyday and read the bible everyday up until junior year in high school?
You may not believe me, Mike, but my faith in God was unshakable until I realized that I'd been talking to myself all my life everytime I prayed.
However, I will still do that experiment you proposed.
And finally, why doesn't god speak in a loud voice? If that's what it takes to convince someone, why not do it? If you truly loved someone and wanted nothing but the best and you knew that the only way to reach that person was to do something big and dramatic, wouldn't you do it?
You know damn well that there's no "divinity" in a non-mysterious being. That's why God works in mysterious ways. It's like Darth Vader and Darth Sidius. They always covered their faces so they could be mysterious and, somehow, that makes other people have high regards for them. I think people would stop holding God in such a high regard if it starts talking out loud to people.
This message has been edited by Lam, 05-07-2004 03:36 AM

The Laminator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Rrhain, posted 05-07-2004 4:05 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 7 of 321 (106202)
05-07-2004 4:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Zachariah
05-06-2004 10:03 PM


Something I'd like to add while I'm writing this stupid paper that I have to do. Just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean I'm lazy. I go to church every Sunday morning and I pray almost everyday. Why? A few years ago my parents made me promise to do all those things. Unfortunately, I'm one of those that keeps my promises no matter what.
After a few years of church goings and prayings, I still haven't seen any "personal evidence" that you people claim to exist. Oh well, perhaps another 10 years of this will make it sink in and make me insane

The Laminator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Zachariah, posted 05-06-2004 10:03 PM Zachariah has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by mike the wiz, posted 05-07-2004 9:43 AM coffee_addict has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 8 of 321 (106216)
05-07-2004 5:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Zachariah
05-06-2004 10:03 PM


I did this once and was unable to duplicate your results.
Why do you suppose that might be?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Zachariah, posted 05-06-2004 10:03 PM Zachariah has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Cynic1, posted 05-07-2004 7:16 AM crashfrog has not replied

Cynic1
Member (Idle past 6075 days)
Posts: 78
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 9 of 321 (106230)
05-07-2004 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by crashfrog
05-07-2004 5:31 AM


You must not have opened your mind enough. A really open mind is a mind open to suggestion. Couple this with repetitive input of information, and you should have self brainwashing. If you really did the reading, you must not have opened your mind enough. Try either meditation or sleep deprivation for better results.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by crashfrog, posted 05-07-2004 5:31 AM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Rrhain, posted 05-08-2004 3:08 AM Cynic1 has replied

fnord
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 321 (106232)
05-07-2004 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Zachariah
05-06-2004 10:03 PM


another challenge
Hi Zach,
May I suggest a counter challenge? In John 14:13-14 (and other places in the Bible) Jesus says And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.
So here's what I want you to do: for one week, you ask in your prayers if I can be converted to Christianity.
Think about it. The way I see it, it would be a triple win situation if I saw the light. For you, for God (one soul more), and for me (eternal life).
I can assure you I'm serious about this. While I am an atheist, I'm also open minded, and certainly not a die hard skeptic. I will look out for signs, and if anything happens, report it back here.
And in the meantime, I'll read John.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Zachariah, posted 05-06-2004 10:03 PM Zachariah has not replied

mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 11 of 321 (106247)
05-07-2004 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by coffee_addict
05-07-2004 4:39 AM


I am truly impressed by the way you have kept this covenant. That's a bit of great character showing their Lam. I am awe-inspired by your dedication to keep this promise. You are a great lesson to me - and you said rightly when you said you are more holy than me. Excellent!
As for personal evidence, ho hum - if you're not convinced you're not convinced. I hope you find your personal evidence one day.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6873 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 12 of 321 (106265)
05-07-2004 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Rrhain
05-07-2004 4:05 AM


Loud voice
alas, he does speak in a loud voice, it's just not everyone knows it is his.
You know your parents' voice? You know it is they who speak because you know their voice.
Christians all too often forget that Christ has sheep in many flocks, and just because someone says I am this or that and everything other than a Christian, means this and that is what he/she is right now. They also forget to be humble in their belief, and trust God to know what he is doing to/with all his children. They also forget to be respectful of the choices people make for themselves. God is.
My apologies and live long and prosper.
George

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Rrhain, posted 05-07-2004 4:05 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
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cromwell
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 321 (106412)
05-07-2004 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Zachariah
05-06-2004 10:03 PM


Seen the light
I took up this challenge many years ago.It was a self imposed challenge.
Once i was a strict atheist and evolutionist,i would profusely ridicule all believers in God.However,out of curiosity i found myself trying to read and understand the scriptures,and was lost in understanding its context.
Holding an open bible.I found myself arrogantly asking an invisible being,one that i didn't even believe existed "What is all of this rubbish about?"
Two weeks later i was unwittingly shown the scriptural basics by visiting Christians.Seeing sense in what they said i studied the basics and subsequently studied the bible in-depth.
Having only recently come to this forum.I find the evolutionary ideas on here incredible.I discarded my outdated evolutionary ideas years ago.It was only through intensely learning the scriptures that i have no doubt of the existance of a Creator,but looking at the adaptation/evolutionary science and idealisms on this forum,there could be a combination of the two.
Lam...Keep up the challenge.Open your mind and most of all,open your heart.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Zachariah, posted 05-06-2004 10:03 PM Zachariah has not replied

Zachariah
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 321 (106421)
05-07-2004 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Rrhain
05-07-2004 4:05 AM


GET IT RIGHT
An atheist actor from California, hmmm...... never thought I'd see one of those. This isn't a thread that I wish to discuss disbelief in rather I want others to try something and hear back. If you aren't willing to try so be it. And I'm not being abnoxious or anything else and I never called anyone lazy. If you wish to speak for me then it should be in a believing way (christian). And others already know how I feel about those who say they tried it. I say if you have an open mind and want to find God then he will come to you. If everyone wants to take the opportunity to bash god for there problems or talk down to LAM or NFORD for giving it a real chance then go ahead I can't stop you. I just think you are cowards for talking smack and not really trying to see the truth. As for Nford (?name) I'll pray for you like you asked. As for the others asking me to give up god for a month. You make me laugh. You think I would DARE speak against my LORD. I think not. Good try. Peace, gotta go. -Z
This message has been edited by Zachariah, 05-07-2004 05:55 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Rrhain, posted 05-07-2004 4:05 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by AdminBrian, posted 05-07-2004 6:55 PM Zachariah has replied
 Message 22 by Rrhain, posted 05-08-2004 3:26 AM Zachariah has not replied
 Message 23 by Denesha, posted 05-08-2004 7:46 AM Zachariah has replied

AdminBrian
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 321 (106427)
05-07-2004 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Zachariah
05-07-2004 6:44 PM


Steady
Hi Zachariah,
If you aren't willing to try so be it. Just keep it shut.
I am sure you can be much more polite than this. Please keep a civil tone to your replies.
AdminBrian

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Zachariah, posted 05-07-2004 6:44 PM Zachariah has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Zachariah, posted 05-07-2004 6:57 PM AdminBrian has replied

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