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Author | Topic: atheism | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cobra_snake Inactive Member |
quote: Well, I suppose the main difference between myself and a duck is 800 million years of evolution. Also, I don't have a cold.
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Cobra_snake Inactive Member |
quote: Of course there are differences in opinion, but does opinion mean anything in relation to right and wrong? Should Hitlers views be regarded as the same as Mother Teresa's? Of course not. There are universal morals, whether or not an individual wants to recognize them makes no difference.
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Mister Pamboli Member (Idle past 7599 days) Posts: 634 From: Washington, USA Joined: |
quote: In some ways I hesitate to disagree with you in that I do believe there are moral standards which can hold universally. However, though I doubt that "opinion" forms part of the moral standard, I do believe that it could and does take different forms dependent on circumstances - that it requires a degree of relativism in order to be universal. But in your attempt to put down relativism, you raise it inadvertently. You can rest assured I despise Hitler. Sadly I hold Mother Teresa's moral position quite troubling - she strikes me as having been a quite appalling person who manipulated the poor and suffering for ends which quite likely included her own egoism and a misguided devotion to an institution rather than a moral code. But I wouldn't want to compare her to Hitler!
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KingPenguin Member (Idle past 7905 days) Posts: 286 From: Freeland, Mi USA Joined: |
you never know someones true intent behind there actions, excluding Jesus. no one is better than anyone in any real sense but the way they treat you affects your judgement of them and how much you trust them.
------------------"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi
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KingPenguin Member (Idle past 7905 days) Posts: 286 From: Freeland, Mi USA Joined: |
quote: until then... but even then youd probably still deny it. ------------------"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi
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Mister Pamboli Member (Idle past 7599 days) Posts: 634 From: Washington, USA Joined: |
quote: Hey! I agree with you! You understand that I was saying that morality, even a universal morality, has to take account to some extent of relativism, because even those who are clearly good and well motivated to some, will seem quite else to others. How we resolve these issues is of course extremely difficult.
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KingPenguin Member (Idle past 7905 days) Posts: 286 From: Freeland, Mi USA Joined: |
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
you never know someones true intent behind there actions, excluding Jesus. no one is better than anyone in any real sense but the way they treat you affects your judgement of them and how much you trust them. Originally posted by Mister Pamboli:Hey! I agree with you! You understand that I was saying that morality, even a universal morality, has to take account to some extent of relativism, because even those who are clearly good and well motivated to some, will seem quite else to others. How we resolve these issues is of course extremely difficult. KingPenguin:well the bible says that Jesus's motivation was love for all of gods children and thats what i have faith in so i came to that conclusion. How he does it and why he does love us is definetly beyond me, i would despise humans if i were God. Just look at how many times people sin, or do something morally wrong. ------------------"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi [This message has been edited by KingPenguin, 03-11-2002] [This message has been edited by KingPenguin, 03-11-2002]
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Punisher Inactive Member |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Darwin Storm:
[B] Best not to go down the path of absolute "right and wrong", since christianity can't make the same claim either. [/QUOTE] Actually, Christianity states that God's word is the absolute standard.
quote: Not true: read Leviticus 18; incest was outlawed shortly after the Israelites left Egypt.
quote: A favorite yet weak argument. First, I won't mention the millions and millions that have been killed by atheist/evolutionist fueled beliefs (Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot). Second, I challenge you to find Scriptural support for the inquistion and the crusades. Many ignoble things have been done in the name of "God" but that does not negate the Truths laid out in His word. That argument is like saying St. Andrews Cross is a symbol of racism simply because a group like the skinheads choose to wave it as their banner.
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Punisher Inactive Member |
Joz, can you read my post #49? and respond? It is a follow up to my original post to which you responded. Thx
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LudvanB Inactive Member |
quote: Oh please dont Hovind-ize the board with this utter nonsense about evolution. Stalin and Pol Pot murdered millions to keep themselve in power and Hitler murdered jews because he thought thats what God wanted...he says so in his book,Mein Kaft. Evolutionary science is simply OBSERVATION of change. True evolutionists DONT PARTICIPATE in the process...they merely record it. As soon as you start to participate,thats no longuer evolutionary science...it becomes EUGENICS,which is what Hitler tried to do...the creation of a perfect race.
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Peter Member (Idle past 1501 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
quote: Could you please quote a universal moral ? Morals are a product of society, they change as society andsituation change. People who are raised in a particular society may choose toreject the morality of that society, but cannot be said to be acting against the morals of another, to them, alien society. Hitler's actions can be considered against morality because hewas raised in a culture founded in christian morality, which he clearly broke. Is incest immoral (I'm not in favour of it myself I hasten toadd). It is illegal in the western world, and appears to be regarded in the Bible as unacceptable, and yet it was normal in Ancient Egypt to the extent that it wasn't even recognised within the culture. What makes something MORAL ? It is a societal definition, not an absolute.
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nator Member (Idle past 2192 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: OK, but what does this have to do with Biology and the ToE? Would you care to discuss the evidence?
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Punisher Inactive Member |
quote: I'm not sure what Hovind-ize means. I know who he is but I don't read his stuff. My examples of Hitler and Stalin was more of a side note. My response was similiar to yours. True Christians understand that the crusades and the inquisition were misguided and NOT an example of Biblical Christianity. [This message has been edited by Punisher, 03-11-2002]
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Punisher Inactive Member |
I thought the topic was atheism. Sorry if I mis-read the subject line of the post. I am discussing the evidence in a number of threads.
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leekim Inactive Member |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mister Pamboli:
[b] quote: In some ways I hesitate to disagree with you in that I do believe there are moral standards which can hold universally. However, though I doubt that "opinion" forms part of the moral standard, I do believe that it could and does take different forms dependent on circumstances - that it requires a degree of relativism in order to be universal. But in your attempt to put down relativism, you raise it inadvertently. You can rest assured I despise Hitler. Sadly I hold Mother Teresa's moral position quite troubling -she strikes me as having been a quite appalling person who manipulated the poor and suffering for ends which quite likely included her own egoism and a misguided devotion to an institution rather than a moral code. But I wouldn't want to compare her to Hitler! ---Although this is a tangent, I think your absurd commentary on Mother Teresa needs clarification. An "appalling person"?, "manipulated the poor and suffering"? "her own egoism and a misguided devotion to an institution"? This is one of the most entirely non-objective commentaries on a subject which you clearly have a biased and non-knowledgable of...Mother Theresa did indeed tend to the poor, lepers, the elderly, the sick and did so not for self aggrandizement but rather out of the goodness of her heart. Although doing something in this manner may be a foreign concept to you (yes, this is clearly an ad hom attack), please don't defame Mother Theresa in the process. If your capable of it, please present your factual date and a logical explanation which "proves" that Mother Theresa was an "appalling person", that she "manipulated the poor and suffering" and "her own egoism and a misguided devotion to an institution"?
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