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Author Topic:   Religion: a survival mechanism?
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 81 (189886)
03-03-2005 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
03-02-2005 5:52 AM


Re: Survival or Surrender? The science of religion
quote:
Back in the day when me and my friends ingested hallucinogenic drugs and mushrooms, we often transcended the realm between self and "oneness."
Strange, but what do you mean by transcended the realm between self and oneness? Isn't that just an effect of the drugs, not really going outside yourself?

The subtlety of nature is far beyond that of sense or of the understanding; so that the specious meditations, speculations, and theories of mankind are but a kind of insanity, only there is no one to stand by and observe it.
-Francis Bacon "Novum Organum"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 03-02-2005 5:52 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Phat, posted 03-04-2005 6:37 AM joshua221 has replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 75 of 81 (190597)
03-08-2005 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Phat
03-04-2005 6:37 AM


Re: The pharmacological science of a bout with spirits
I can't see how the drugs provided means for you to be outside of yourself. Sorry if I misunderstood something, but if you can, try to explain what you mean to me. (posted this in school!)

The subtlety of nature is far beyond that of sense or of the understanding; so that the specious meditations, speculations, and theories of mankind are but a kind of insanity, only there is no one to stand by and observe it.
-Francis Bacon "Novum Organum"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Phat, posted 03-04-2005 6:37 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Phat, posted 03-08-2005 3:26 PM joshua221 has replied
 Message 77 by riVeRraT, posted 03-09-2005 7:22 AM joshua221 has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 81 (190826)
03-09-2005 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Phat
03-08-2005 3:26 PM


Re: Religion: Survival of the craziest?
Yeah, you're mos def right about drugs being a survival mechanism.
quote:
Survival is about knowing when to fight and when to surrender.
Yeah, in Farenheit 451 there was a great page dedicated to this. But it was more about human nature. "A time to build and a time to break down..." Not sure on the exact quote, but it's right. And what is interesting is, that I found a very similar quote written by solomon, I think it was in Song of Songs, or Psalms, Proverbs. But it's a timeless message. And you're exactly right.
quote:
To get back to answering your question, I was obviously never outside of myself. This is basically impossible, although some shamans claim to practice astral projection. I am skeptical as to what it is that they are REALLY going through.
Actually I was watching a show on the history channel, and there was a shaman, and his wife chanting beside a fire. I wanted so badly to know what they were saying. I still do want to know what these ancient civilizations' survivors say in prayer. I thought that they probably prayed about the same things that I would pray about. I realize that there are many paths to "enlightenment", "nirvana", or "heaven", but the path to take is the tricky part. Christianity's ideology has led me his far.
I also have been pondering about natural selection, survival of the fittest type ideas within the human race. I have realized that schools, sports, and the worklife is dedicated to keep this alive through competition. But I dont think competition is so great, many Americans, capitalism supporters, and people that care a lot on their materialistic living think otherwise. Competition ensures a winner, but also a loser who ultimately lives what is looked upon as a pathetic low income life. This stresses me out, because during school, I notice these things. People who score low on tests do bad in life. I don't want to be this person. I sort of want to be able to continue learning in higher level schools. But because of a single income that is low, and none since my dad is layed-off and my mom died when I was 8 (masters in biology, teacher), I may be forced to live out a life of a laborer, or something to that effect. This feeling has been strengthened because of a poor grade in a math class that I know I can do much better in.
I guess it's sort of a contradiction, I talk about materialistic living, and immediate gratification, but then I don't want to be a peasant, and I care...
ty phatboy

The subtlety of nature is far beyond that of sense or of the understanding; so that the specious meditations, speculations, and theories of mankind are but a kind of insanity, only there is no one to stand by and observe it.
-Francis Bacon "Novum Organum"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Phat, posted 03-08-2005 3:26 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Phat, posted 03-09-2005 8:14 PM joshua221 has replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 81 (190977)
03-10-2005 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Phat
03-09-2005 8:14 PM


Re: Religion: Survival of the craziest?
Thanks Phatboy.
Yeah, sometimes the people that you meet, that have never attended college, or might not have even graduated high school are the most intelligent.
Another thing that has happened to me recently has really rattled me. I was snowboarding at a local place about 35 minutes away from my house. My friends didn't go, my brother didn't go either. I was sitting down eating lunch inside the "lodge". I sat in a table next to the line for buying food. I watched a guy I have never seen before buy a piece of pizza, a coke, then he approached me. He asked me if I was alone, and if he could have lunch with me.
I said sure, and he sat down, he asked me some questions to start a conversation maybe. He asked me about college, and what I wanted to do. I told him, philosophy, and maybe theology, study of ancients texts. He instantly connected, telling me that he had gone to school for philosophy, graduated Cornell, and 2 other forgotten highly prestigous schools. He told me about an author, Herman Hesse, who I has previously been recommended from a great teacher, Mr. H. He teaches Global Studies at my school. This was strange because he talked about things that I had been stressing out about for so long with me. This was amplified by a similar story that my teacher Mr H. had told me about a "Dweller", a man who resonated a large sound, and could pick up on others' sounds, this dweller said he had stayed in the same place for a long time, and this allowed him to pick up on others' sounds.
I immediately thought of this, and actually questioned the guy I was eating lunch with about it, he barely responded, getting caught in a web of Chinese Philosophy, his past experiences in Desert Storm.
After the long conversation he left, and I rode the ski lift up with him, never saw him again.
After reading "Siddhartha", and "Demian" I realized what effect this dweller was talking to me about.
I wrote down the topics of talk in my journal, and the implications that I could connect with my life were obvious. The messages have stayed with me. But this experience has turned me on to a path that make me have the need to attend a college, and pursue my wishes in education.

The subtlety of nature is far beyond that of sense or of the understanding; so that the specious meditations, speculations, and theories of mankind are but a kind of insanity, only there is no one to stand by and observe it.
-Francis Bacon "Novum Organum"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Phat, posted 03-09-2005 8:14 PM Phat has not replied

  
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