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Author Topic:   Ouija board, useful information from?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 31 of 49 (582689)
09-22-2010 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Yrreg
09-22-2010 8:31 PM


Re: About thinking outside the box, consider that there is the biggest box anyone...
What is the box enthusiasts of the theory of evolution box themselves in?
"Propositions should not be accepted without sufficient evidence to support them."
What is the box enthusiasts of the Big Bang theory box themselves in?
"Propositions should not be accepted without sufficient evidence to support them."
Those are the boxes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Yrreg, posted 09-22-2010 8:31 PM Yrreg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Yrreg, posted 09-24-2010 5:23 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 32 of 49 (582690)
09-22-2010 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Yrreg
09-22-2010 8:31 PM


Whew!!
I just read your post 3 times. Each time I tried really, really hard to understand what you were saying. Each time my brain tried to lock down.
I ahve come to the conclusion that this is all just gibberish. You aren't really saying anything.
Can someone try to translate this and let me know if he actually is trying to make a point and what it is.
More importantly; what the hell does this have to do with the Ouija board.
My only response is a quote attributed to many people, but I guess Max Radin is the earliest.
quote:
"Keep an open mind —
but not so open that your brain falls out"
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 33 of 49 (582711)
09-23-2010 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Theodoric
09-22-2010 8:58 PM


Re: Whew!!
I suspect he composed it during a peyote aided communion with the spirit of this person.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 34 of 49 (582712)
09-23-2010 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Yrreg
05-18-2008 7:44 PM


Have you obtained useful information from the ouija board or by way of the ouija board?
Well, there was this one time...
Thanks, grandpa!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Yrreg, posted 05-18-2008 7:44 PM Yrreg has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 35 of 49 (582713)
09-23-2010 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Yrreg
09-22-2010 8:31 PM


Re: About thinking outside the box, consider that there is the biggest box anyone...
Yrreg writes:
Is there such a box that contains all the boxes people are thinking inside?
No. It's boxes all the way down.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

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 Message 37 by Phat, posted 09-23-2010 10:01 AM ringo has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 36 of 49 (582714)
09-23-2010 1:51 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Yrreg
09-22-2010 8:31 PM


Re: About thinking outside the box, consider that there is the biggest box anyone...
What is the box enthusiasts of the Big Bang theory box themselves in? The mental space between on the one end the point of the Big Bang socalled and the limit of the expanding observable universe, but there is a bigger box containing the metal space between these two boundaries of the point of the Big Bang beginning and the ballooning edge of the expanding observable universe.
yea and a few scientist are thinking about it super string theory and and M theory if i am not mistaken its also based on a lot of speculation like are there cosmic strings would they actualy do what they speculate would happen if 2 of them collided although there is still more evidence for these strings thant a so called god
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 37 of 49 (582742)
09-23-2010 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by ringo
09-23-2010 12:41 AM


Re: About thinking outside the box, consider that there is the biggest box anyone...
The point is, all the way up, there are also boxes, and the biggest box is the one we ourselves are in. Thinking outside that box would be beyond human capability.
For the purposes of a discussion on occult(hidden knowledge) phenomena, only gullible people would allow themselves to follow the voice of the "spirit world". This even includes the supposed voice of God Herself!

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 Message 35 by ringo, posted 09-23-2010 12:41 AM ringo has replied

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 38 of 49 (582760)
09-23-2010 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Phat
09-23-2010 10:01 AM


Re: About thinking outside the box, consider that there is the biggest box anyone...
Phat writes:
The point is, all the way up, there are also boxes, and the biggest box is the one we ourselves are in. Thinking outside that box would be beyond human capability.
What some people don't seem to understand is that the world of occult and religious experience is one of the inner boxes that many of us are already habitually outside of.
There may be a biggest box that humans can never get outside of and there may be a God outside that box. There may also be a box that God can't get outside of. Who knows what's outside that box?

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

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Tram law
Member (Idle past 4705 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 39 of 49 (582772)
09-23-2010 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Grizz
05-25-2008 1:11 PM


Yeah, but why does it have to be Former President Bush and not Obama?
Or Clinton?
Or Roosevelt?
Or Lincoln?
Or Washington?

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Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 40 of 49 (582778)
09-23-2010 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Tram law
09-23-2010 12:43 PM


Tram law writes:
Yeah, but why does it have to be Former President Bush and not Obama?
Presumably, that's because the message you were responding to was actually posted during the Bush administration.

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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 41 of 49 (582784)
09-23-2010 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Yrreg
05-22-2008 8:12 PM


Re: A means to self-knowledge from oneself and others
What then is the useful information or generally usefulness of the ouija board?
You can never ever ascertain the actual accuracy of a predictive tool by only looking for its successes.
You are setting yourself up for confirmation bias by asking for peoples' personal, anecdotal testimony regarding useful gleanings of information from a ouija board. This means that you are asking to only hear about the successes without any sort of statistical context. If I give you a broken clock and a working clock and ask you to tell me stories about when each clock was useful, we would expect results from both clocks to be positive, with a 100% accuracy rate - even a broken clock is right twice per day, and if I only ask you to report successful incidents, that 100% accuracy rate will never diminish.
You cannot determine accuracy unless you actively seek falsification of your hypothesis. If you think that ouija boards are actually privy to some outside information not already present in teh minds of the participants, you need to perform tests like what Granny Magda proposed - blindfold everyone using the board, and use a video camera to record the results of the blind participants. If an unobserved source is actually moving the (cup? lens? whatever) around the board, you would anticipate finding readable messages on the video. If instead the messages are the result of unconscious or semi-conscious movements by the participants, then you would expect gibberish to be recorded.
In any case, you would need to ask the same set of verifiable questions to many groups of ouija board users in a controlled environment and record the results. Analyze the statistical distribution of correct vs. incorrect answers and compare them to a group of people who are asked to randomly guess answers to the same questions. If the correct/incorrect ratios are similar, you can conclude that it is likely that the ouija board is no more "useful" than random guessing - it might be right now and again, but why bother with the board if you could just make up a random guess on the spot with the same probability of accurate results?
Only if the board demonstrates a repeatable and clear statistical increase in the accuracy of responses over random guesses can you conclude that the board is useful in some way. Obviously, you aren't going to get that by asking people for success stories on a web forum.
Is that the nature? which is 'in charge' of natural selection as in Charles Darwin's natural selection in his work
Natural selection doesn;t require anything to be "in charge," and in fact it bears every possible appearance of having no intellect in charge.
After all, what intelligent designer would ever create or guide to be created the platypus?
Joking aside, natural selection is an inevitability given finite resources. So long as living things need to compete for food, space, etc to survive, it is utterly inevitable that those individuals within a population that are better adapted to their current environment will survive more frequently and thus produce more offspring than those with less effective adaptations to their current environment; the passing of traits from parent to offspring means that those more beneficial traits will inevitably take an ever-increasing statistical hold over the population as a whole over many generations. It's a self-perpetuating system that simply results from the conditions of life, where resource are limited, limited spontaneous changes happen during reproduction (what we call mutations), and traits are inherited from parents.

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Yrreg
Member (Idle past 4925 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 11-21-2006


Message 42 of 49 (583117)
09-24-2010 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by crashfrog
09-22-2010 8:45 PM


Re: About thinking outside the box, consider that there is the biggest box anyone...
You are talking about empirical evidence, unless I am mistaken.
That is a box which you should not box yourself in because there are things which an intelligent mind is certain of even if you cannot produce empirical evidence to support them.
For example, if you think intelligently and not be boxed in by empirical evidence, you will have certainty that there is something outside the box that is the existence extending from the point of the socalled big bang and the ballooning edge of the observable universe.
Yrreg

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by AZPaul3, posted 09-24-2010 5:53 PM Yrreg has not replied
 Message 44 by Percy, posted 09-24-2010 6:12 PM Yrreg has not replied
 Message 46 by crashfrog, posted 09-24-2010 8:27 PM Yrreg has not replied
 Message 47 by frako, posted 09-24-2010 8:39 PM Yrreg has not replied
 Message 48 by lyx2no, posted 09-25-2010 1:34 PM Yrreg has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 43 of 49 (583125)
09-24-2010 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Yrreg
09-24-2010 5:23 PM


Re: About thinking outside the box, consider that there is the biggest box anyone...
Interesting, Yrreg.
You are saying that you are certain there is something outside the known universe?
There must be a reason, some evidence (empirical or otherwise), that leads you to be certain there is an "outside" to the Universe.
Can you walk me through the chain of evidence and reasoning that leads you to this certainty? The more specific, to facilitate my understanding, the better.

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 44 of 49 (583127)
09-24-2010 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Yrreg
09-24-2010 5:23 PM


What About Ouija Boards?
What's this got to do with Ouija boards? Do want to figure out whether they work or not? How are you going to do that without empirical evidence? If you have a feeling they work because you're not "boxed in by empirical evidence" and I have empirical evidence that they don't work, who will other people believe? You and your feelings? Or me and my pages of data, tables and charts?
Actually, not to go off topic, but now that I think of it most people will believe you, not me. Shortly after I start presenting my data they'll fall asleep, so if you go first you'll win. People believe in Ouija boards because of how they feel about them, not because they've examined and reasoned through the evidence, and you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
--Percy

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 Message 45 by cavediver, posted 09-24-2010 6:26 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3644 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 45 of 49 (583130)
09-24-2010 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Percy
09-24-2010 6:12 PM


Re: What About Ouija Boards?
who will other people believe? You and your feelings? Or me and my pages of data, tables and charts?
Have you been outside in the last 30 years, Percy?
Actually, not to go off topic, but now that I think of it most people will believe you, not me.
And here I learn my lesson to read both paragraphs before starting my reply
Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

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