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Member Posts: 3941 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
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Author | Topic: Is Syamsu a creationist or an evolutionist? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3941 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
As much as I have come to dislike the existence of the "Free For All" forum, this concerns Syamsu, so here it is.
I haven't made any atempt to follow, in any detail, any of the lengthy Syamsu related topics, but... What is Syamsu's position in the Creationism/Evolution debate? Is he a creationist, or is he an evolutionist who just find objection to (whatever he defines as) "Darwinism" as being some sort of evil agenda? Moose [This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 09-18-2003]
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
I don't know and I don't think that it matters. He's spent enough time implicitly arguing for racism that he might be a crypto-racist hoping that he can persuade evolutionists to agree with his secret views.
(Or not so secret views - he did try arguing that the Bosnian Muslims were "genetically deformed" at one point. After running from that discussion for the next two years he tried to pretend that he never said it - running away whenever the evidence was produced - before finally claiming that he didn't really mean it and that he was taking some form of "devil's advocate" position. Given that it took two years to say that - instead of stating it when he gave up the original discussion - and that he seems to have no sensible reason for saying it in the first place it's at least possible that he really meant it. If he wasn;t a loon I'd have said it was almost certain).
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Mammuthus Member (Idle past 6475 days) Posts: 3085 From: Munich, Germany Joined: |
He often labels himself a creationists and claims that his assertions are consistent with creationists ideology. However, what the ideology he is referring to is as obscure as the logic in the rest of his posts.
His main points seem to be that 1. that there is no variation of any significance in populations 2. to claim there is and to be so bold as to compare relative reproductive success among variants is dangerous 3. because it leads to social darwinisms which..4. Darwinism equals nazism His arguments are naive and misguided but I would not say one could lump him in with what other creationists typically say. Very interesting that he apparently called Bosnian muslims genetically deformed given his persistence in condeming the supposed judgementalism he accuses all scientists of. [This message has been edited by Mammuthus, 09-18-2003]
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Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
I still haven't quite figured this one out. I have asked him directly but he hasn't deigned to reply. Certainly some of his topic titles would suggest so, i.e. 'cut variation= cut racism and atheism', but he seems quite happy to bring up the connection of creationist ideas of immuntability of species as a rationale for racism as well.
Perhaps it is simply that his approach is so elliptical that it is impossible to tell what direction he is coming from, he often says that it is noe evolution he is talking about but natural selection and the Darwinian language of 'common judgementalism'.
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Syamsu  Suspended Member (Idle past 5590 days) Posts: 1914 From: amsterdam Joined: |
The genetically deformed Muslims is something biology professor Plavsic talked about, as a member of the Serbian-Bosnian presidential commitee during the war in Bosnia. Plavsic is now in prison for her warcrimes. This was then reconstrued by the talk.origins mob as if I had alleged it. (because they couldn't deal with neutrality as an ideal in science, in stead of as a fact)
Do you consider yourself misled by PaulK for omitting this little piece of information about Plavsic? regards,Mohammad Nor Syamsu
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Mammuthus Member (Idle past 6475 days) Posts: 3085 From: Munich, Germany Joined: |
quote: I have what PaulK asserted and what you have asserted with neither one of you posting a link to the original discussion.... so for all I know you could be the one attempting to mislead me...see why posting the evidence for your assertions is important? Your lack of knowlege of biology and wildly accusatory statements regarding others, not to mention your debate tactics on this site would lead me to believe PaulK over you but you can clear the matter up buy posting the evidence in your favor.
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Syamsu  Suspended Member (Idle past 5590 days) Posts: 1914 From: amsterdam Joined: |
I'm not asking you who you believe, I'm just asking you if you consider yourself misled by PaulK for omitting the information about Plavsic.
regards,Mohammad Nor Syamsu
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Mammuthus Member (Idle past 6475 days) Posts: 3085 From: Munich, Germany Joined: |
paulK writes:
quote: Why is this misleading? He accuses YOU of advocating that Bosnian Muslims are genetically deformed. You have not denied this nor have you provided evidence that this is something you disagree with, nor have you provided a link to the original discussion. That he does not mention another person who has stated something similar (though you have not provided evidence that this was said by Plavsic either) is irrelevant to establishing whether or not YOU stated that Bosnian Muslims are genetically deformed.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
[Sorry - duplicate post]
[This message has been edited by PaulK, 09-18-2003]
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Just a couple of questions.
Did you or did you not assert that Plavsic's assertions were "genuine science" ?
newsgroup message 1 A false claim which directly supports Plavsic - Plavsic had NO scientific evidence of any "genetic deformity". Even the webpage you used as your source disagreed with you there! Did you or did you not assert that "She saw the deformities in the Muslim population herself" ? newsgroup message 2Another false claim - since there were no genetic deformities to see. And in newsgroup message 3do we not see you, personally, state that "History says that some genetically deformed Serbs embraced Islam." A statement which is outright false - HISTORY maks no such claim.
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Syamsu  Suspended Member (Idle past 5590 days) Posts: 1914 From: amsterdam Joined: |
I would say that the fact that you find that information essentially irrellevant shows you to be corrupt in handling evidence.
Who here can't immediately recognize the resentment ridden post of PaulK for what it is?, a screwy attempt at characterassassination. regards,Mohammad Nor Syamsu
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Mammuthus Member (Idle past 6475 days) Posts: 3085 From: Munich, Germany Joined: |
and it gets better
quote:
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3941 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
I think I would like to keep this topic short, and get a clear as possible answer to the topic title question.
Syamsu - Could you make a statement on the question of are you a creationist or an evolutionist? Moose
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Mammuthus Member (Idle past 6475 days) Posts: 3085 From: Munich, Germany Joined: |
I would say PaulK's post and the links therin with your own words shows that you are a liar....you assasinated your own character
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Syamsu  Suspended Member (Idle past 5590 days) Posts: 1914 From: amsterdam Joined: |
It's just as pathetic an accusation now as it was then. You have no case except in your own twisted mind. Obviously, you are just very upset about my opinion about the relationship between Darwinism and Social Darwinism. (an opinion which you will now misconstrue into something bizarre I'm sure). Very sad.
regards,Mohammad Nor Syamsu
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