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Author | Topic: Is macroevolution a religion? Should we rename it evolutiontarianism? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kendemyer Inactive Member |
TO: Schrafinator
When I see many high schools talk about all the shortcomings of the macroevolutionary hypothesis I will rescind my Taliban comment. Secondly, it is obvious that milititant atheist who espouse darwinist dogma have persecuted Christians far more than they have been persecuted by people calling themselves Christians. I do not know of one materialist martyr. It seem to me that if they were persecuted at least one angry person or mob would have lynched/killed a materialist. Voltaire and others, however, died a normal death. End of discusssion. Sincerely, Ken
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nator Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Ken, you ignored my direct questions to you in your reply.
This makes me think that you are not interested in debating honestly. Does your God approve of dishonesty? Here are the questions again. Please answer them:
quote: Now, to your current message:
quote: No. Justify or withdraw your comparison of a MURDEROUS religious government with the free and open exchange of ideas that is science. Perhaps you would also like to list all the shortcomings of the Theory of Evolution here for us to specifically discuss? I asked you to do this in my last post, but you ignored the request.
quote: Irrelevant.
quote: Irrelevant.
quote: Irrelevant.
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kendemyer Inactive Member |
re: what specifically do I have problems with in regards to the macroevolutionary hypothesis
I believe you have seen this string: http://EvC Forum: Young earth creationism is valid and the macroevolutionary hypothesis is not valid -->EvC Forum: Young earth creationism is valid and the macroevolutionary hypothesis is not valid I do not know why you even ask this question. re: biologist/repressive regimes I would say that it is a multidisciplinary effort of many scientist plus the involvement of educators, judges, politicians, etc who attempt to foist the macroevolutionary hypothesis upon the earth and create a environment that professes a materialist ideology. Do all people in these fields of human endeavor do this? No, Duanne Gish could hardly be called a participant. I gave the specific examples of Stalin and Marx and their adoption of the material they read in the Origin of the Species. In certain countries, especially ones without a Christian heritage, the results have been disastrous. This is well documented. I cannot make it more clear. I think you are intentionally trying to obscure the facts due to the fact that you simply do not like them. Sincerely, Ken < [This message has been edited by kendemyer, 03-04-2004]
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
You made an error in your post.
I would say that it is a multidisciplinary effort of many scientist plus the involvement of educators, judges, politicians, etc who attempt to avoid unsubstantiated fairy tales and create a environment that fosters intellectual growth and the spirit of inquiry. There. I fixed it.
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nator Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Your opening post does not list specifics, it just lists a bunch of websites. Following your opening post, you were requested to pick specific evidences and discuss them. You refused, but refusing to discuss the details is tantamount to giving up before you've started the debate. Please pick one specific piece of evidence from one of those websites and we will discuss the details. I want to talk about very minute, specific details in great detail about one, specific bit of evidence. So, pick one, and we will talk about why it is that you disagree with the findings of science. If you like, I will pick one for you. Let me know.
quote: I know what you think. However, I would like to see what your evidence is for why you think this. That is why I asked the following question in my last post, which you did not answer. Please answer this direct question:
[quote]Which militant Biologists who have become repressive leaders in government are you talking about? Please list their names.[quote]
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kendemyer Inactive Member |
Dear Schrafinator:
As you know Stalin abandoned the idea of being a lifelong priest (I am guessing Russian Orthodox) pretty much after he read Darwin's Origin of the Species according to the biographer who published a book about him in Russia during the time he was in power. Now since Darwin was no possessor of a biology degree but had a theology degree like Stalin was working toward or completed, I would say that Stalin is the biologist you are looking for. Stalin's work in biology was just as good as Darwin's in my estimation. If Stalin did no work in biology it still would be better than Darwin's contribution. I am not against being self taught but Darwin would not be a great example of the benefits of being self taught. For example, let us look at some legacies. Pasteur was a creationist and he had the great Pasteur Institute as a legacy. Perhaps there is a Darwin Institute. If there is a Darwin Institute it is surely not as well known as the Pasteur Institute. I would also say that the Pasteur Institute is far more productive than any Darwin Institute there may or may not be. Sincerely, Ken
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
quote:Did you learn logic like this in your managerial training?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Ken REALLY doesn't know what he is talking about.
In Stalin's time biologists were often persecuted by the government The Lysenko affair is well known:Trofim Lysenko - Wikipedia But even before Lysenko achieved his full power Stalin was acting against biologists
Already, before Vavilov's arrest, the losses among Soviet biologists had been staggering. In 1936, Israel Agol, Max Levin, and Solomon Levit, all communists working in the field of biological theory, were publicly denounced as "enemies of the people" and arrested...
http://www.comms.dcu.ie/sheehanh/lysenko.htm
... They were followed by a host of others. Many were arrested. Of these some were shot, while others simply died in prison. Others were witch-hunted, lost their jobs, and were forced into other areas of work. Institutes were closed down. Journals ceased to appear. Books were removed from library shelves. Texts were revised. Names became unmentionable.
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nator Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: What is the name of this Biographer, and what is the name of the book?
quote: There was no such thing as a "Biology Degree" back when Darwin was alive. There was no such thing as any "degree" in any of the sciences as we know them today, because science as a profession had not been formalized yet.
quote: Please tell me the title of any naturalist paper or book written by Stalin.
quote: Let me sum up what you said here: There is no Darwin Institute. Well, there might be a Darwin institute, and because I haven't heard of it, it isn't as well known worldwide as the Pasteur Institute. Even though I don't even know if a Darwin Institute even exists or not, I somehow psychically know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Pasteur Institute is way better.
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nator Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
sorry, double post.
[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 03-05-2004]
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nator Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Since you seem unable to pick a single bit of evidence regarding the ToE for us to discuss, I will do so for you.
Let's see, why don't we discuss why it is that whales are sometimes born with hind legs? This is predicted in an evolutionary model, because there is very good evidence that modern whales evolved from land-dwelling mammals. We understand that an individual's genetic code can become expressed, or "turned on" by mistake every once in a while. These are called "atavisms." Why would an individual whale grow legs "by mistake" if all of whale "kind" had been created by God to always swim in the sea? Why would they have the genes to grow legs at all? Now, let's discuss your problems with this bit of evidence. "Evolution is a 'theory', just like gravity. If you don't like it, go jump off a bridge."
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nator Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Ken, you failed to answer this question, and I don't want it to be left behind, as it is a serious accusation.
quote: Please provide specific examples of evolutionists "often" going "crazy" when their positions are criticized.
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kendemyer Inactive Member |
A large point is being ignored. When atheism is left on its own and becomes the paradigm of a country and there has not been a foundation of Bible believing or strong Christian input we see large degrees of chaos in a society (Mao, Stalin, North Korea, Eastern Europe, etc).
Materialism does not work. Please consider this information: http://www.taemag.com/.../articleID.17700/article_detail.asp Sincerely, Ken
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Another good example is the contemporary U.S. Nothing is more materialistic than good old fashioned free market economics - as espoused by, of all people, the relgious right. I directly blame the chaos and social problems in this country, as opposed to other Western nations, to the dominance that the political right has enjoyed in this country.
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JonF Member (Idle past 189 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Pasteur was a creationist and he had the great Pasteur Institute as a legacy. I certainly don't expect any rational discussion of this from Ken, but I would like to point out that Pasteur was certainly not a creationist in the modern sense of the word, and almost certainly was not in the sense of the word in his time. Quoting John Wilkins in Re: Pasteur Safari:
quote:
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