D&D and satanisim

What a big argument....some beat women?? Who do you know that plays D&D? D&D started as a bunch of guys sitting around a table having fun by having battle with Holy Palidans slaying evil Wizards and bringing good to their lands...why is this condemed? It should be seen as highly as other games for it uphold the greatest foundation of Good vs. Evil and on the rare occations Evil vs. Good. SO what if some D&D players are not Christians....that doesn't at all make it Satanic. My mom's side of the family is very devoted Catholics and all them but my Grandparents played D&D. It pisses me off that you Christains keep trying to abolish things just because you are against them...WELL THEN JUST DON'T PLAY IT!! Like abortion, just don't have one. Just stop complaining about everything and get your nose out of everyones lifes.....

More often than not the paladin and wizard are on the same side. Sometimes good wizards slay evil paladins.D&D as a whole does not present the occult as inherently negative, but rather, a neutral force to be wielded towards the will of the wielder, much as a sword is neither good or bad in and of itself.It's this neutral portrayal of the occult that perhaps, many Christians object to. Here, here. Honestly, what interpretation of the Bible allows people like them to replace Jesus's golden rule with "thou shalt horn in on other people's business whenever possible"?

D&D is a game....if you can't tell it from reality then that is your own problem....I normally run evil parties vs some Human Empire in mere fun not that I would actually draw my Axe and slay a police squad....D&D is played by Satanists but I highly dought even you could have a whole number of the %. Most of the players are Chrsitains and Athiests.

I don't see the big deal... why not just play video games, like MMORPG's or ARPG's. or if you really want people to shun you LARP.my point (if iI indeed have one ) is this, D&D just isn't that much fun, there are other options that are just as funoh well i'm rambling...sleepytime....bye now.

D&D is fun depending on your DM and other players, but yes I too get bored of the paper and pencil concept as then I play video games, but what the hell does that have to do with comparasion D&D and Satanisim?

well, you see when I get tired and I post on forums my mind makes connections that others may miss( this has been proven by science, friends) it can easily be summed up in this equationD&D=Paper+pencil/(laziness)mountain dew+cheetos
you see D&D requires you to use your hands and meager math skills and your imagination. this causes your body to burn calories, hence it is excersise and i shun all excersise as being from the devil.now look upon this equation for STAR WAR'S Knights of the old republic 2 (for Xbox tm)KOTOR= Time/(laziness) mountain dew+cheetos.you see friends!! playing video game RPG's takes all exertion out of the equation. thus making it a perfect game worthy of the angels on high!!

Perhaps I laid the sarcasm on a little too thick?oh well, toodles

I would like to add some things to the mix but want to ensure that I am not unwelcome to do so first. I have been gone for a little over a year, so perhaps my sudden re-entry would seem a bit arrongant. Please let me know if this is the case. Also, I want to briefly explain my history with role-playing in general.I started with AD&D back in 1989 or 1990. I have also spend considerable time playing Marvel Super Heroes (the old system), Rifts and other Palladium systems, GURPS, and some of those gaming systems that come out new and you try thinking that it might be something good only to find out it was a waste of time. In the span of time I spent in RPG's (until 1999) my involvement could accurately be described as intense. I would say, while bordering closely to bragging, that my level of knowledge is very experienced.I would like to make some comments on the question raised from the Biblical Christian perspective. I just want to accurately convey first that I know the argument from both sides. If there is any questions or further information needed to validate this please ask. Otherwise, I will begin formulating a response to post sometime in the very near future.Thanks.Russ

I'm more of an Exalted fan myself these days.Most of my arguments with fundies centered on Wicca.

You've established your nerd credentials beyond a doubt. Welcome, brother! I think I had a copy of that. Was that the one with the FEAT system? Where you'd bounce percentile dice and compare it to this table on the back of the game books? I remember it was a unique system but I felt it was a tad too straightforward. It seems to me that an RPG system should try to obfuscate the mechanics to discourage munchkinism.To try to bring it back to the topic, I don't think any recreation is inherently evil or Satanic, or even inherently good and Godly. It's your relationship with your hobbies that determines whether or not they're good clean fun or dangerous addictions. They're all means of self-expression; that expression can be good for you, or it can be bad for you.But I'd like to know your thoughts if indeed you can speak from both sides of the issue.

Wow! Yaro, I never saw this thread before when you first posted it.And now about the Christians. The mindset of belief is different for us. We believe that trusting in Gods Spirit to guide our imagination is preferable to imagining ones own life. It does not mean we are zombies, or unthinking zealots. It means that God always gets the final say...not a roll of some "fate" dice.In the case of D&D, however, there were several gothic type "depressed" kids who got in trouble and were linked to D&D so it was naturally assumed that the D&D caused the behavior. This is not true as the kids were depressed beforehand. My close friends played D&D and I used to watch them. It is a roleplaying game and nothing more.As any good Christian kid is taught, God assigns us our roles and duties in life...we do not choose our destiny. For one who was forced to go to Christian school and church and then later becomes a freethinker who is unshackled from the restraints of organized religion, imagining ones role, position, and influence becomes intoxicatingly empowering! Its a classic clash of the worldviews,here! Yes, Fundies can be prudes but you have to remember our belief system. One follows "the devil" merely by refusing to bow to the authority of God. There is no middle ground. The devil asserts that ye shall be as gods...ye shall imagine and create your world and your destiny...ye shall be your own boss!This appeals to freethinkers everywhere! Nobody wants to be accountable to a Deity!To you, it matters little, because God is not a part of your belief.To us, God is in charge regardless of what you or I believe. Absolute truth IS. Always WAS. Always will be. The serpant Was.(as Lucifer.) IS NOT because there is only one God...one Spirit...yet will come for those whose names are not written in the book of life. Why is it always that humans like heroes who are in control and dislike heroes...such as Jesus...who are humble and bow to a superior source? There is no such thing as neutral. For or against. Black or white. No middle ground. Toodles? Is not Toodles the High Priest of Insanity? Well said. Except for that spell that turned you into a roadfrog....This message has been edited by Phatboy, 03-02-2005 00:55 AM

Phatboy writes:

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This appeals to freethinkers everywhere! Nobody wants to be accountable to a Deity!

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Huh? Since when did not bowing down to you meant that a person isn't accountable to god? You seem to think that the freethinker is a nihilist. Have you considered the possibility that god will take care of the freethinker and doesn't need you trying to butt in where you were expressly told you have no business being? Judge not, and all that.

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heroes...such as Jesus...who are humble and bow to a superior source?

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Oh, please. Jesus was a big ole egotist. Always me, me, me. What you did unto the least of them, you also did unto ME. No way to salvation except through ME. I will do this. I will do that. I am the way, the truth, and the light.Sheesh...he claimed that he was god! How much bigger of an ego can you get? When doctors get this god complex, we note that they are mentally unstable. Maybe that was why Jews kept insisting that the Messiah was not god but a man. Anybody who thinks he is god has something wrong going on.

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There is no such thing as neutral. For or against. Black or white. No middle ground.

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You know it, so say it along with me:Logical error: Excluded middle. Heck you even admit that there is a middle ground: So which is it? Can something be neither inherently evil or good, thus neutral, or is that impossible?[Topic: Just started a GURPS Infinite Worlds campaign. He's a 17th Century French courtier. Part of the schtick is that he can drop his accent whenever he wants.]

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

It is all in the intent. If someone who never had a belief in God was playing D&D or actually doing something mischevious like cursing people with a voodoo doll, for example...they would perhaps not have the intent of going against God since they never believed in God. IF..however...someone knew full well what they believed and then did something against that belief they would be more liable.You can get away with calling Jesus an egomaniac since you see him as a mere man.If I dissed Him like that, I would be cursing my God. Unless He actually IS God! This message has been edited by Phatboy, 03-02-2005 10:28 AM

Phatboy responds to me:

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So which is it? Can something be neither inherently evil or good, thus neutral, or is that impossible?

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You would be neutral based on what you know.

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Ah, so you're contradicting your earlier claim that neutrality is impossible. Thanks.[Ob Topic: Any suggestions on developing a GURPS Infinite Worlds character? I'm going for the Avengers concept. He's a crack shot (pistol and rifle at 15, grenade launcher at 14), has some Sex Appeal, Appearance, and Savoir Faire (High Society). He's been trained to be the group's medic, and I'm trying to think what would be the best long term strategies. I'm going to bump his Strength up to 11 since he seems to be the one that has to carry around the weapons and that'd help not weigh him down, but his big traits are Dex (13) and Int (11). I'm thinking that Diplomacy, Acting, possibly picking up Fast Talk. Anybody else find use in the character that tries the human factor first before bringing out the guns but can drop you in a heartbeat with that gun if talking fails?]

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

No, Rrhainman! I am clarifying my position. Neutrality is impossible for a believer but not for a relativist who refuses to bow to any absolute not defined by themself.
I DO have to scramble a bit when faced with your logic. You are not stupid by any means, yet I liken the battle of wits with you as fighting with a man who wins lots of battles while losing the war.You have claimed to be a "believer" in the past. How do you put it?
That you just believe in god but not MY god?
You have yet to describe your "god" to us, and I suspect it is because this god concept is really framed by your own logic. In other words, you are a deity within your own mind. If I am wrong, kindly explain your deity to the rest of us.Many fundies who claim to know God make this mistake and are far worse than you are at it.Am I correct in assuming that you believe human wisdom to be the origin of all concepts and beliefs?This message has been edited by Phatboy, 03-02-2005 10:30 AM