D&D and satanisim

WRROOONG! It IS an allegory of Christianity. Read the Silmarillion. It's basically Genesis. Gandalf is an angel working for God Almighty.Any of this sound familiar to you?: (from The Silmarillion | encyclopedia article by TheFreeDictionary )

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The supreme deity of Tolkien's universe is called Eru Ilvatar (The One who is Father of All). The tale began with Ilvatar's creation of spirits of lesser power than him, yet of independent nature, named the Ainur.

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The Ainur (from Valarin Ayanz) are the spirits who existed with Ilvatar, and helped him to create the world Arda through the Music of the Ainur. After the creation of Arda, many of the Ainur worked to guide and order its growth. Of these there were fifteen more powerful than the rest. Fourteen became the Valar. The fifteenth, Melkor, became the first Dark Lord.

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Ilvatar made divine music with them... the Music of the Ainur is the great song at the beginning of Time, out of which the World Arda was created. In it the whole history of Arda was told, but the Ainur which came into it forgot most of it.

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Melkor Morgoth Bauglir (Morgoth means 'Black Enemy', Bauglir is 'The Constrainer'...was - to begin with - the most powerful of the Valar, and he contended with Eru himself in the Music of the Ainur.

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Ilvatar muttered "E", that is, "be!". This order created the universe, and therefore the universe became known as "E".

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Melkor... attempted to take it for his own... and thus Melkor was forced to flee to some unknown part of E.

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So, if anything, playing Dungeons and Dragons, which is a direct rip off of LOTR, is actually celebrating God, not Satan.This message has been edited by custard, 06-16-2004 03:18 AM

Yes, the ultimate classic: Dark Dungeons.I read this and became a Chick fan for life.This message has been edited by custard, 06-16-2004 03:22 AM

Hmm, it's got to be Frodo, right? He's the one who sacrifices everything to save the rest of the world. That he doesn't actually get physically killed isn't so important as he is spiritually killed and has to go into the West to be 'resurrected.'I'm not really seeing the Arthurian 'rip off' unless you refer to the whole Return of the King with the Cool Sword theme - which is an old Anglo-Saxon theme. But that is only a minor part of the entire story which begins in the Silmarillion.But trying to make it through the Silmarillion is like trying to get through the OT without all the 'begats.' The only way I managed to do it was when I got the book on tape. And it's better than Ambion for putting you to sleep.This message has been edited by custard, 06-16-2004 03:48 AM

Yeah, I was grasping at straws, but it works as well as any biblical interpretation you see on these forums. Yeah, you definitely have a point. And I'm saying that the Arthurian legend is in part based on older Anglo-Saxon mythology so it is no surprise there are such similarities.Tolkien was trying to create a unique sort of British mythology, but as an Anglo-Saxon scholar, he used a lot of themes and ideas from that mythology. Even many names, e.g. names like Thorin, Dwalin, Balin, etc., come from that mythology.Also if you ever read any Norse sagas, you'll see a few familiar names for people and things as well.

The world is too funny. Not twenty minutes after reading your post I saw a link to this in another thread: Why Tolkien Says The Lord of the Rings Is Catholic

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If, however, Christ is never mentioned by name in The Lord of the Rings, how can we discern his invisible presence?

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The most obvious parallel between Tolkien's myth and the Christian truth it reflects so faithfully is in the nature of the quest which constitutes the principal animus of Tolkien's story. The journey of Frodo and Sam into the very heart of Mordor in order to destroy, or unmake, the Ring in the fires of Mt. Doom is emblematic of the Christian's imitation of Christ in carrying the cross of sin.

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At its most profound level, The Lord of the Rings is a sublimely mystical passion play. The carrying of the ring the emblem of sin is the carrying of the cross. This is the ultimate applicability of The Lord of the Rings that we have to lose our life in order to gain it; that unless we die we cannot live; that we must all take up our cross and follow him.

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Yeah baby! Who's da man! (well, LOTR geek I guess... )

(*BLINK*)Did you just say what I think you said?(*BLINK*)Doesn't everybody know Dude, Where's My Car is Paul's attempt to convert the Roman Empire?

Oh my stars and garters! You've struck gold!

I could you ask you the same question: why did the Jesus of the bible have to be such a wussbag?All he had to do was hang out with prostitutes and lepers, deal with a couple of Pharisees and then some measely crucifixion. Heck even Gollum had to put up with more than that.

Yeah, I totally agree. It certainly seems like a human archetype.I think I disagree with this statement though: I've read some reviews and quotes to this effect about Tolkien, they also go on to claim that the LOTR saga wasn't strongly influenced by WWI, WWII, and the Neibelungleid.I know it may come off as being arrogant to the Rrhainth degree ( ) to contradict the author regarding the themes within his own work, but one must willfully ignore the evidence that Tolkien wasn't influenced by these events -at the very least subconsciously - and they found their way into his work.I don't think that is an uncommon occurence with authors. In, On Writing, Stephen King discussed how themes and ideas seem to write themselves. I submit this happened with Tolkien as well: he couldn't completely escape being a product of his environment (Catholicism, world war, etc.) and it found its way into his work.Or maybe the Genesis myth has been etched into psyche to the degree that when I read (in the Silmarillion) [quote] Ilvatar muttered "E", that is, "be!". This order created the universe, and therefore the universe became known as "E". [/qs] I am compelled to make the connection with "Let there be light."Then there is the whole Melkor theme... how can one help thinking of anything other than Lucifer?Perhaps LOTR isn't an allegory, but it is certainly rife with Christian themes.This message has been edited by custard, 06-17-2004 03:57 PM

Good point. Saying D&D is satanic is like saying that the people who dress up for the Society of Creative Anachronism are satan worshipers.

ha ha, no not war reinactors. Renaissance/Medieval reinactors. Hmm, on second thought, maybe SCA isn't so bad...

You bastard. I actually spit coughed my coffee onto the keyboard when I read this.You now owe me $39.95.