Justify damnation, dammit!

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We don't "wish" hell on anyone, that is why you and Lam are failing to understand this. "We" and "I" mean nothing to us, Buz has already explained this. (I=morals)(I also can kill = who the f*ck am I to say anything)

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We need not justify hell. The wicked themselves justify it.

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Go see an innocent baba getting killed, then you'll wish for hell to exist.

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I keep hearing this great saying from my colleagues in harm's way out here:"Wish in one hand and sh!t in the other, and we'll see which one gets full first."...which is to say that wishing has little to do with reality.Personally, I relish the idea of all the evil people in the world getting sent to eternal burning. Hell, it might be worth my getting sent there too, just to know that Ted Bundy's supposed conversion wasn't worth anything after what he did, or that Hitler really does get a pineapple shoved up his rectum by Satan every day, like in Little Nicky. Wish in one hand....What it comes down to for me is the idea that every human being's unique life story of fumbling and guesses and disparate ingrained/invented belief and resulting action will be distilled and processed into only two possible outcomes by an invisible and supposedly morally superior deity. Anyone who believes we are created with a moral responsibility to a creator must believe then that we are created with the ability to recognize and fulfill that responsibility. Why then, is the recognition and response observed in human beings so demonstrably independent of an inherent quality or sense found in our neural centers and so obviously dependent on where we are born and what experiences we see? And how can an independently thinking human being accept the notion that for every person the summation of all this complicated, nuanced belief and action will be just thrown in a pile with the other billions of lives and divided by one simple rule? Life is not that simple; for this reason I hold that, according to the reason granted me by whatever entity or sum of forces (irrelevant to the argument) caused my existence and consciousness, eternal judgment by a reasonable being could never be that simple. To say otherwise is to ignore countless aspects of human existence and cheapen the value of our lives. By the moment, by the hour, by the year, such a view would have us discard the better part of meaning that is found in our lives.The more I see them, the more these dialectics irritate me. They are good for toddlers, but not grown-ups.

Hi B2P baba. Sorry about the long time in responding My point was - that if they brought me dead rats, I wouldn't reward them, I'd clean the mess off my floor. You need to see this from an omniscient perspective. But those people are not who we are B2P - we have never taken part in crusades or terrible events. Nor is "christian" defined by them my friend. But I guess these are not God's people. For me - any person can be God's, and is God's. I suppose I still think that the Jews are God's chosen people. Yet - like you I believe God is easily capable of saving all. I'm describing a different thing in righteoussness though, and is difficult to explain.Here's an example again;Human says; "We are starving, therefore God has led us into the desert to die," (self-righteouss and doubtful- believing ones own interpretation is right)God says; "Why would I do that when I have promised a land" (Righteoussness)Human says; "Why doesn't God help that starving kid" (self-righteouss and doubt - this human could have sold all he had and gave to the poor person)God says; "feed the poor who starve because you are rich" (righteoussness)Human says; "Listen - that man shouldn't go to hell" (self-righteouss, that person has sinned against God and has not said sorry despite God dying for him)God says; "He that believeth in me shall never die - I payed hi debt" (righteoussness)(These are made up and my opinion) Oh it's far more than that. It is to say "I am sorry for f**ing up your planet God, etc. etc..) - If someone has hit you in the face B2P, would you say "I forgive you" and the person said "I am not sorry"? Would you forgive him? Look at what we each contribute to this planet. If we all sold our belongings alone - there would be no more poor people.Nevertheless, I do believe and hope that God will save all. And I hope that he gives you an answer. I hope Christ is kind to you.PS - Don't hit people.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 08-06-2004 08:19 PM

But at the end of that your story, the humans are right!

Ahahaha. The dead rats are tastey eh.Thanks for proving my point Mr Knight. You say humans are right and God is wrong. I suppose a cat thinks it has better intelligence than a human eh?

that's a pretty pathetic analogy - how do the activities of two real entities (man and cat) reflect that of a fictional construct?This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 08-06-2004 08:52 PM

Wow. I am a fictional construct of God's mind!Man, that's a great idea, I never thought of that before now!PS - Incase you haven't read all the thread (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt aka discresion)- I am comparing God's omnisciency to a human, by means of a cat's knowledge to a humans. Afterall, if God did create this universe - surely he is more intelligent than us, would you agree?

Narrow it for me - which one of the 3000 or so gods do you believe in?

Didn't you know? There's only one God. I believe in 1 more than you. You doubt 3000, I doubt 2999. But tell me, why this sudden urge to runaway with the threads I'm partaking in over such things?Maybe you hate me and want me dead!

em.. I've never heard or see you before.What do all your threads have in common?

I really want a good response from my friend Born2preach. I really don't want him to be put off this thread. It seems we are sparring over a period of minutes, after my comments about creation scientists.So I must ask if you hate me!!!!LolBTW - Don't lie - you have heard of me. I am the topic on everyone's lips and I demand that you comfort my ego immediately!!!!!This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 08-06-2004 09:21 PM

An omnipotent, all knowing, and all loving existence would understand the effort of the little animal better than any human would, and as such would reward him as well as clean the mess. Or are you saying the an omnipotent being wouldn't take so kindly to it? If so, then the God you describe is not all-loving. It's also difficult to understand thus far However, we're all God's people. It's just some of us are idiots, because we're PEOPLE. Talk is cheap. If God just says what he'll do and doesn't do it, He's a slacker. He also wouldn't just pick off some of His children for another luckier group to have their land. It's not moral, therefore the truly all-loving and righteous God will not do it. But some people don't believe He died for us. They're skeptic. That's NO REASON to send people to hell, Mike. Absolutely inexcusable for any being to do that to who which He creates, knowing that they'll be skeptical. If you're wanting me to answer "I'd break his patella" then okay, I'll bite. But still, sin is screwing up your own life, not God's. If it's hell for anyone who won't obey a tyrannical, all-controlling God then people in hell are heroes. That's not the case, so I don't think such a God would do that. If so, he's not moral. I doubt that God would send to hell for skepticm. Just isn't very all-understanding of Him. Christ, if He's who He's cracked up to be(which He is) will be kind and love all(armageddon He'll get rough, but oh well.) because the highest power in the universe with absolute morality will do just that. Period.When you wrestle or box you will hit people with or without trouble anywhere else, by the way.

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)

The idea that a loving God would create billions and billions of human beings just to send the majority of them to hell to burn for eternity is very difficult to understand and justify. Many would claim that we send ourselves to this hell, but the fact of the matter is that God allowed it to be there, and He is supposed to be in control at all times. The only way to accept this as justice is for one to yield to a Higher wisdom than our fallible minds can produce. God's.This entire idea of "hell" is often what turns many off to any interest in giving God a chance in their lives.However, there is a Scriptural alternative view and claims a flaw in the translation of the KJV of the Bible. For more information, read L. Ray Smith - Exposing Those Who Contradict. Read his critique on John Hagee's sermon.His basic premise is that Christ died for the sins of the world and eventually all will come to know God. "Every knee will bow..." etc. He goes into GREAT detail. A very interesting read for any Christian or skeptic. I am still doing much research on the issue.Farewell, and God bless.

From http://www.bible-truths.com/part6.htm For some reason the word "kind" comes to mind. Can anyone inform me as to the veracity of this claim?

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"Chance is a minor ingredient in the Darwinian recipe, but the most important ingredient is cumulative selection which is quintessentially nonrandom."
--Richard Dawkins, The Blind Watchmaker

Shucks - your stubborn about this one. Which is fair enough.I guess I'm just not intelligent enough to explain to you the nature of human's self-righteoussness, and God's righteoussness. Sorry about that. For what it's worth - your sentiments are admirable, and I share them somewhat. I guess I am just too stubborn to say anything good of man rather than God.As per-regular, I'll defend God but not me; The point was - that the murmurers were wrong, - God did provide food for them on their way out of Egypt. "Beware of the yeast of the pharisees". "We seek a sign - we seek a sign". Their doubt was self-righteouss, and about as intelligent as a cat compared to Abraham's faith. As God did not lead them out of Egypt that they may die. Listen - I won't argue with what God says, but I hope they aren't going to hell. I trust God - therefore, I trust those who will go to hell, are there for a reason. Nevertheless, I don't know for sure as to anyone's destiny. God says that when you do something evil to the "least" of people - you do it to him. If you hit someone, you hit God. Those in hell - how can their own understanding surpass God's? It's like the cat, all it's able to do is insist that I eat dead rats or I am a bad human.I've been chomping and a harfing and barfin' on dead rats. Chew, chomp, *boing* "oops, a bit of grizzle". This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 08-07-2004 12:45 PM

I'm glad you feel this way, Mike. I hope the best comes to you for it. However, I can't leave anything unchecked. If I'm going to be preaching, I want to be absolutely positive I'm plugging a belief that I am in 100% agreement with. But by sending the bad people-the least-to hell, God is sending Himself to hell by your logic. So God will just torture anyone that he wants, but we can't? That's not the God we believe in, Mike. I know it isn't.And again, that cat doesn't INSIST you eat dead rats. But he does get kind of defensive when you throw him(the cat) into the garabage disposal just for offering his best to you.

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit. http://www.BadPreacher.5u.com (incomplete, but look anyway!)