Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   NDE
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 91 of 130 (65067)
11-07-2003 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by zipzip
11-07-2003 9:13 PM


zipzip
Are you thereby stating that we should give up investigation since it is apparent that we can never resolve the issue?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by zipzip, posted 11-07-2003 9:13 PM zipzip has not replied

  
Wise
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 130 (65070)
11-07-2003 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by sidelined
11-07-2003 9:06 PM


Wise
What makes the pastor incapable of lying?
One would suppose that nearly anyone would be capable of lying...BUT, in the said story there was a number of individuals involved which would have made his task of lying very very difficult if the Pastor chose to do so.
In looking up other NDE'S on the net I noticed that several of them had very similar stories to mine most notably:
#1-That time does not exist as we know it.
#2-Their lives flashing before their eyes very quickly
#3-Extremely bright light
#4-A feeling of warmth and peace
Not long ago, perhaps a few years there was a documentary on the set which had those who experienced NDE'S.
I remember one man who was pronounced clinically dead and who said he wanted to go back. Why? He was experiencing a great amount of pain in his body and he felt pure peace in the afterlife. He said he did not want to be here anymore.
Wise

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by sidelined, posted 11-07-2003 9:06 PM sidelined has not replied

  
Wise
Inactive Member


Message 93 of 130 (65071)
11-07-2003 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by zipzip
11-07-2003 9:13 PM


Wise, I think the best way to know that God exists and that there is an afterlife is because that is what He tells us in the Bible.
To others: as someone with at least some background in neuroscience, both clinical and theoretical, I think the best anyone (Christian, non-Christian, or anyone else) can say regarding NDEs is "that is certainly interesting, and voting one way or the other is really just speculation whatever your background or research interests." Anything more would seem to be speaking out of turn.
GOooossssssssshhhhhhhh......I feel admonished.
But hey..........Death is part of life and these experiences are indeed fascinating.
They certainly strike a dagger into the heart of atheism.
Wise

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by zipzip, posted 11-07-2003 9:13 PM zipzip has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Coragyps, posted 11-07-2003 10:31 PM Wise has replied
 Message 95 by NosyNed, posted 11-07-2003 11:15 PM Wise has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 94 of 130 (65073)
11-07-2003 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Wise
11-07-2003 9:57 PM


They certainly strike a dagger into the heart of atheism.
What a peculiar statement! They point the way to lots of possible research on brain chemistry - especially the "bright white light" phenomenon that the Tibetan Book of the Dead talks about - but they don't have doodley to do with atheism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Wise, posted 11-07-2003 9:57 PM Wise has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Wise, posted 11-09-2003 5:35 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 95 of 130 (65078)
11-07-2003 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Wise
11-07-2003 9:57 PM


Wise, you seem to be missing a point.
We do know that our senses are not perfect. We know that we can see, hear, smell and feel things which have no external reality. Based on this those of us not predisposed to believe things are not going to take your account as evidence for anything more than that you believe you experienced these things. It isn't meaningful beyond that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Wise, posted 11-07-2003 9:57 PM Wise has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 96 of 130 (65102)
11-08-2003 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Wise
11-07-2003 3:46 PM


Wise responds to me:
quote:
quote:
The motion of electrically charged particles. That's what electricity is. Usually, it is the motion of electrons (they're small compared to protons and stable compared to quarks.)
Are you now going to question the accuracy of quantum electrodynamics?
WHAT exactly...CHARGED those particles?
Nothing. Charged particles are that way simply because there is no other way for them to be. Charged particles aren't like taking a glass rod and rubbing it with silk so that it carries a static charge.
Electrons have a negative charge because that's what makes them electrons. If they had a positive charge, they'd be positrons.
What exactly about Maxwell's Equations do you misunderstand?
ÑE = r/e0
ÑE = -B/t
ÑB = 0
ÑB = m0J + m0e0E/t
quote:
It HAS to be a soul and spirit. There is NO OTHER answer.
Electrons have a soul?
Quantum mechanics describes the soul?
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Wise, posted 11-07-2003 3:46 PM Wise has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Wise, posted 11-09-2003 6:25 PM Rrhain has replied
 Message 106 by Wise, posted 11-09-2003 6:47 PM Rrhain has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 97 of 130 (65103)
11-08-2003 7:13 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Wise
11-07-2003 3:50 PM


Wise responds to me:
quote:
quote:
Nobody denies what you felt.
The problem is in regard to your claim that what you felt has the cosmic significance you are ascribing to it.
I TOLD the TROOPER and she agreed.
Irrelevant. The question is not that you had an experience.
The question is what that experience means.
When we go to see David Copperfield or Penn and Teller, we see fantastical feats. Things disappear right before our eyes.
Does that mean they have occult powers? Nobody denies that you saw something disappear.
The question is whether or not the disappearance means what you claim it means.
quote:
This was a GENUINE NDE.
Nobody denies that. You had a horrible accident. You had a vision.
Since when did having a vision mean that it was necessarily a supernatural vision?
How can you tell?
quote:
I know....this is VERY VERY hard for hardcore atheists to accept.
Who said I was an atheist?
You, too, see to think that the only alternative to your opinion about god is to think there is no god.
Have you considered the possibility that god does exist but not in the way you think?
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Wise, posted 11-07-2003 3:50 PM Wise has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 98 of 130 (65104)
11-08-2003 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Wise
11-07-2003 7:47 PM


Wise writes:
quote:
What is the SOURCE of electricity?
ÑE = r/e0
ÑE = -B/t
ÑB = 0
ÑB = m0J + m0e0E/t
What about this do you not understand?
quote:
It is known that the electrical impulses originate from the brain.
Incorrect.
It is known that the electrical impulses originate from the motion of charged particles. Those charged particles happen to take place inside of the brain, but there is nothing special about the charged particles simply for being inside a brain.
Or are you saying that the chemistry that takes place inside of a cell is of a fundamentally different form than the chemistry that takes place outside of a cell?
quote:
Next HOW does the Nodes of Ranvier ALLOW energy to enter the AXON
They don't.
Or do we need to explain myelinization to you?
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Wise, posted 11-07-2003 7:47 PM Wise has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 99 of 130 (65105)
11-08-2003 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Wise
11-07-2003 8:08 PM


Wise responds to crashfrog:
quote:
quote:
Yes, and Hindus and Sikhs and every other follower of any god in the celestial zoo SAW what they SAW and FELT what they FELT. You totally ignore this fact in your reply, probably because it kills your fantasy stone dead.
Their's are FALSE. Mine was REAL.
And yet, they say the exact same thing using the exact same evidence.
Why should anybody believe you over them?
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Wise, posted 11-07-2003 8:08 PM Wise has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Wise, posted 11-09-2003 5:44 PM Rrhain has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 100 of 130 (65106)
11-08-2003 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Wise
11-07-2003 8:08 PM


Their's are FALSE. Mine was REAL.
Your proof that their visions were false is what exactly?
You really haven't got the hang of constructing an argument have you?
Based on this defect of yours, I conclude that God has not sent you back to inform atheists, if He did then you would be just a tad more convincing.
I think it is time you owned up to being an atheist having a carry on. It was funny for a while but it is getting boring now.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Wise, posted 11-07-2003 8:08 PM Wise has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Wise, posted 11-09-2003 5:13 PM Brian has replied

  
Wise
Inactive Member


Message 101 of 130 (65412)
11-09-2003 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Brian
11-08-2003 7:25 AM


Your proof that their visions were false is what exactly?
You really haven't got the hang of constructing an argument have you?
Based on this defect of yours, I conclude that God has not sent you back to inform atheists, if He did then you would be just a tad more convincing.
I think it is time you owned up to being an atheist having a carry on. It was funny for a while but it is getting boring now.
Brian.
You appear to be suffering from something. Backslidden perhaps?
Ideas of NDE'S haunting you?
Well, I have some bad news....yes...some very bad news. Many NDE'S are NOT pleasant and involve a place called hell.
Behold:
http://www.cinemind.com/atwater/hell.html
Wise
[This message has been edited by Wise, 11-09-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Brian, posted 11-08-2003 7:25 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Brian, posted 11-10-2003 9:41 AM Wise has not replied

  
Wise
Inactive Member


Message 102 of 130 (65416)
11-09-2003 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Coragyps
11-07-2003 10:31 PM


What a peculiar statement! They point the way to lots of possible research on brain chemistry - especially the "bright white light" phenomenon that the Tibetan Book of the Dead talks about - but they don't have doodley to do with atheism.
They point to an AFTERLIFE. Something in which Christianity espouses and atheism REJECTS.MANY individuals SAW JESUS.
So NDE'S most CERTAINLY strike a dagger into the heart of atheism
One case has a nurse who records *50* such NDE'S and all of them had out of body experiences that recollected nearly everything that took place in the operating room in which the individual were totally unconscious or clinacally dead.
Wise
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Coragyps, posted 11-07-2003 10:31 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Rrhain, posted 11-11-2003 8:08 AM Wise has not replied

  
Wise
Inactive Member


Message 103 of 130 (65420)
11-09-2003 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Rrhain
11-08-2003 7:22 AM


And yet, they say the exact same thing using the exact same evidence.
Why should anybody believe you over them?
Because my NDE has MORE HISTORY and MORE evidence SUPPORTING the NDE from a religious (Biblical) perspective, theirs does NOT.
PLUS I had one
PLUS, there is Smith Wigglesworth who was supoposed to have raised some *23 people from the DEAD.
Astonishing !
Wise

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Rrhain, posted 11-08-2003 7:22 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
Wise
Inactive Member


Message 104 of 130 (65441)
11-09-2003 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Rrhain
11-08-2003 7:09 AM


Nothing. Charged particles are that way simply because there is no other way for them to be. Charged particles aren't like taking a glass rod and rubbing it with silk so that it carries a static charge.
Electrons have a negative charge because that's what makes them electrons. If they had a positive charge, they'd be positrons.
What exactly about Maxwell's Equations do you misunderstand?
E = r/e0
E = -B/t
B = 0
B = m0J + m0e0E/t
Yeaaahh...Riiigght.
NOTHING charges particles? You MUST have attended Saint Atheist school of higher learning.
SOMETHING is charging those particles and let us NOT FORGET that the brain EMITS an electromatic field of some sort which is the soul and spirit eminating energy and keeping the body alive.
This would be a more accurate equation:
e V“ 58e 4’7I—IˆBA07C7E —E$$—IA$5&7587s—že 5–— —IV7s3rVe 4’5&ˆ ˆh5&E$7ehE04
— rE0 De ˆ 587 ...
Wise

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Rrhain, posted 11-08-2003 7:09 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by crashfrog, posted 11-09-2003 6:45 PM Wise has replied
 Message 122 by Rrhain, posted 11-11-2003 8:20 AM Wise has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 105 of 130 (65451)
11-09-2003 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Wise
11-09-2003 6:25 PM


NOTHING charges particles? You MUST have attended Saint Atheist school of higher learning.
You mean the school where we use physics textbooks instead of saying "God did it"? Yup.
If you're so smart maybe you can tell us what an uncharged electron would be, and where we could find one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Wise, posted 11-09-2003 6:25 PM Wise has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Wise, posted 11-09-2003 7:06 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024