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Author Topic:   Ritualised cannibalism
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Message 48 of 51 (27423)
12-19-2002 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Coragyps
12-19-2002 8:28 PM

Originally posted by Coragyps:
What I would really like to know is how this odd little bit got attached to a Hebrew/Greek religion, where the only cannibal I remember was Cronos - and his doings were kind of frowned upon.
Mithra had a similar ritual, so did Dionysius.....
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 Message 47 by Coragyps, posted 12-19-2002 8:28 PM Coragyps has replied

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Member (Idle past 814 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002

Message 49 of 51 (27424)
12-19-2002 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by John
12-19-2002 9:44 PM

I'd forgotten about Dionysius - and I don't know any Mithraic stuff at all. Hmm. Another flaw in my education....

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 Message 48 by John, posted 12-19-2002 9:44 PM John has not replied

Inactive Member

Message 50 of 51 (27455)
12-20-2002 3:51 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Coragyps
12-19-2002 8:28 PM

Originally posted by Coragyps:
I don't get into Bible-y discussions too often, but this one really is kind of interesting. Here we have a directive from a deity to practice (yes, dammit, symbolic) cannibalism or something very like it - at least eating of the deity, who happens to be in a man's form. And here we have Christians denying that this practice is even symbolic or metaphorical cannibalism.
On the topic of cannibalism, ritual or otherwise, and my feeling that the passage simply addresses a metaphorical statement, I share the following:
In the desert
I saw a creature, naked, bestial,
Who, squatting upon the ground,
Held his heart in his hands,
And ate of it.
I said: "Is it good, friend?"
"It is bitter, bitter," he answered;
"But I like it
Because it is bitter,
And because it is my heart."
-Stephen Crane
A metaphor is a powerful thing. It requires the most from the reader/listener, but also brings the greatest reward.
"I'm so hungry I could eat a frozen dog."
-Jack Nicholson
{Fixed UBB code - AM}
[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 02-20-2004]

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 Message 47 by Coragyps, posted 12-19-2002 8:28 PM Coragyps has not replied

Inactive Member

Message 51 of 51 (87806)
02-20-2004 7:09 PM

clarification...tardy though it be
the term for the mystic/magical/spiritual/religious event in holy communion is "transubstantiation" (meaning a change of substance).
this is indeed ritualized cannibalism
but it is still more than that....According to Home | Golden West Telecommunications:
(anethema of the Catholic Church, as set forth by Vatican II)
If any one shall deny that the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore entire Christ, are truly, realy, and substantially contained in the sacrement of the most holy Eucharist; and shall say that he is only init as a sign, or in a figure or virtually--let him be accursed (Canon 1)
As explained to me in adult catechism, transubstantiation is believed by the truly devout and informed catholic to take place each and every time Eucharist is performed. I did not complete this course!
But I did begin an academic effort to understand what appalled me about it.
I found the before mentioned references to anthropology about transferring the qualities of the dead "leader" to use your word meta; traditionally it was a King, or a formiddable opponent in war. Interestingly, Christ is both of these in Romein the days of this cannibalistic practice.
Someone made a comment about the metaphorical context of the Bible. I would like to innform you that the Bible is literature..and in literature a metaphor does the same thing as a transubstantiation...the power of the words used transforms one concept into another, and that one COULD argue that the very metaphorical story you refer to metaphorically means exactly what you argue that it cannot by its nature-you have perhaps made not your case but your opponents in other what a transubstantiation, rather creepy magic I would say, that in that argument you make a case for the metaphor which became Eucharist is a metaphor for what may have happened indeed, and which would have been likely suppressed...given that Rome in its mocking JC as the "King of the Jews" may well have served him up... JC being well aware of the practice and the mockery too.
(Breath in)
Now, I give you this is literary analysis, but then, you said oh its literary...not literal...yet it seems the Romans think that the act of Eucharist is a reinactment of this very day...and they advise that it is metaphysically true that the bread BECOMES flesh and the wine BECOMES blood...(perhaps because in eating him they knew who he was...or believed it based on their own systems...and were converted...therefore they accepted Christianity -slowly)and insist this is sacred and must be repeated to truly believe. It is cetainly believable that to belong to Rome you must believe this...the Vatican says so!Don't question authority, eat your meat.
You hopefully understand that it is IRONIC (another literary term, interestingly enough!)
You also hopefully are enlightened to the question that always gets me on this can you eat flesh and blood and deny it? because! you have not been informed---and this is because the sacrement is an item that would rank pretty high on the list of items that the masses would NEVER ever know if it were not for Luther. Darn luther, he gave away the privileged information! Poor Christians of JC's day...makes one wonder if in taking communion and therfore taking on the qualities, were they then elligible for the reinactment next week???????????? kinda like starter for sour dough heh?
Do you understand that thousands of years and thousand of peoples have filed past in history...with the ignorant and subjective feeding of the flocks their messiah? Okay-you can have him-every week.
Rome often absorbed other religions in an effort to subjugate peoples to their will..passively...religion, the opiate of the people!
If this is right or wrong is morally the right of a man to ponder...what if you ate at a table and after they told you you just ate human flesh? What would you do? Think it over, because if you did not know this before...that is the case, literally, according to substantiation, and it is not this view that is cursed-it is denying it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thank God for a brain to think with. I don't want to eat one, thank you very much. I hope this is taken in context intended-be informed about what you do and don't do things just because someone tells you too!!!!That requirement alone keeps me from being a creationist in the true sense, and has me grounded in the facts , more usually referred to in science whne trying to convince one of something previously unknown.

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