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Author Topic:   Free will but how free really?
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 85 of 182 (812081)
06-14-2017 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by New Cat's Eye
06-14-2017 3:27 PM


If there was a god, they would apparently be putting 'having free will' as a higher priority than 'not having evil', no?
And without considering God, the question of free will does not become a lesser question. The philosophy of free will is intimately bound up in earthly questions regarding crime, punishment and personal responsibility. Our societal notions of fairness, and our willingness to consider mental state, and to allow the insane to escape punishment are all tied up in our acceptance or rejection of the concept of free will.
I am not sure that the origin of the concept is completely non-religious. Saying that it originated with the ancient Greeks isn't much proof given that those folks worshiped their own gods. What we can say is that the concept of free will is completely separable from religion and that there is no particular reason why even atheists would necessarily accept or reject the concept.
Let free will exist as "the ability of people to do the things they wish to do but within limits".
Or
quote:
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
Or
quote:
Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Not really, it is a theory that is imposed on nature so consistently that you think you are observing it. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-14-2017 3:27 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 113 of 182 (812298)
06-15-2017 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Dogmafood
06-15-2017 7:14 PM


The question of responsibility relies on the ability of the individual to be a breaking point by conscious decision. And so it comes down to the nature of consciousness and what it means to be aware.
If it turns out that I have no real choices then the house of cards falls to the ground.
Your argument is similar to mine. What is purpose of such concepts as responsibility, punishment, or even deterrence if none of those things can actually work. And how could those concepts work if every human act is predetermined.
One possible counter-argument is that we all have an illusory sense of free will which compels us to act as though our actions have consequences. I don't find such arguments suitable, and akin to the idea that none of are real and we all live in one of Stile's dreams.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Not really, it is a theory that is imposed on nature so consistently that you think you are observing it. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Dogmafood, posted 06-15-2017 7:14 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Dogmafood, posted 06-15-2017 10:12 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
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