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Author Topic:   Free will but how free really?
ikabod
Member (Idle past 3916 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 13 of 182 (483548)
09-23-2008 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Agobot
09-21-2008 8:02 PM


the best examples of free will are where we seek to place ourselves in harms way .
smoking for example .. a known killer but people exersise their free will and smoke ...
and form of dangerous sport .. skydiving , free climbing ,
we Have free will .. but we may have to reconise and over come our inbuilt and learnt traits to full use it ..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Agobot, posted 09-21-2008 8:02 PM Agobot has not replied

  
ikabod
Member (Idle past 3916 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 25 of 182 (483797)
09-24-2008 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Agobot
09-24-2008 8:52 AM


Re: Lack of information
If we know the state of every molecule in the universe at every point in time since the Big Bang, wouldn't those DNA mutations that led to the survival of life, become unavoidable and pre-determined? Knowing every molecule's state in the universe would easilly wipe the floor with the thesis that there is free will in humans.
a very big If , and the answer is still no .. all you would know is what happened THAT TIME you ran history ... only if you could show that no other version of history could possible occur would you start to show some limits
...then you would need to show that the past locks into the future and there is only one possible version of the future
.. this then leads to the absents of NOW ..if there is no now .. then there can be no free will .. however that means time is also an illusion ...which means we are not what we think we are ...
PS never worry about the god squad... they are easy to defeat ..as follows
either i have free will or its all gods plan and therefore his/her fault

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Agobot, posted 09-24-2008 8:52 AM Agobot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Agobot, posted 09-24-2008 9:29 AM ikabod has not replied
 Message 27 by Agobot, posted 09-24-2008 9:35 AM ikabod has not replied
 Message 28 by Agobot, posted 09-24-2008 9:41 AM ikabod has replied

  
ikabod
Member (Idle past 3916 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 47 of 182 (483945)
09-25-2008 6:48 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Agobot
09-24-2008 9:41 AM


Re: Lack of information
but my perception is that we are robots with a pre-determined past, presence and future. In that sense what i am writing here is also pre-determined....
if that is ture is does beg the question where did the idea of free will come from , for such a system as you beleive in has to be a closed system , and so any content would have to be set at the start.
Odd that such a system should contain a concept that is totally alien in nature to the system itself , and is impossible to occur or expirence ...if there is no free will , there is no free thought , so there are no ideas , there is only content ..
and yet we are debating about Free will .....
here is one option to consider .. even the best built robots can malfunction ... maybe free will is a software error in our robot brains , and should not be occuring .. may be we have deveated from the pre-determined route ...
Personal i follow the great teachings ..
stuff happens ,
life is a four letter word ,
all you can do is smile ..it makes other people think your up to something ,
if you worry too much about life you end up with no time to live it ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Agobot, posted 09-24-2008 9:41 AM Agobot has not replied

  
ikabod
Member (Idle past 3916 days)
Posts: 365
From: UK
Joined: 03-13-2006


Message 49 of 182 (484061)
09-26-2008 3:24 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Agobot
09-25-2008 9:17 AM


but if it is all mapped out , why do we question it ...where do the concepts of non determand futures come from ...
i am reminded of a quote .. which i shall now mangle as i cant remember is source ...
it is about the uncertainty principle and a certain cat ... even if you could know the position of every subatomic partical that makes up the cat .. you would still not know why it goes purrs....
Edited by ikabod, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Agobot, posted 09-25-2008 9:17 AM Agobot has not replied

  
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