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Author Topic:   Biblical Creationism
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 16 of 65 (49335)
08-08-2003 6:06 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by The General
08-08-2003 2:40 AM


I already understand your viewpoint, what I dont understand is how you can say
Biblical Creationists get their beliefs from the Bible, and scientific experiments confirm their beliefs.
and yet fail to actually come up with a single example of an experiment confirming those beliefs.
[This message has been edited by Wounded King, 08-08-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by The General, posted 08-08-2003 2:40 AM The General has not replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 17 of 65 (49428)
08-08-2003 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by The General
08-08-2003 2:40 AM


Responder four; I apologize since I misunderstood your tone. You have given your definition of natural selection, yet I feel it is incomplete.
It's "Crashfrog", please. Using my name will help me know when you're talking to me.
Darwin’s theory of Natural Selection
You're wrong right off the bat. Natural selection isn't a theory. It's an observation that explains why organisms don't reproduce at random, but rather, better-adapted organisms leave more offspring.
That's it. Everything else you're talking about is evolution, aka "Darwinism", of which natural selection is a part. You could get your terms right, at least.
You still haven't addressed what thought process replaces observed phenomenon, like natural selection, with unobserved, made-up stories about supernatural entities. Cretainly not a rational one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by The General, posted 08-08-2003 2:40 AM The General has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 18 of 65 (49496)
08-08-2003 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Wounded King
08-08-2003 6:06 AM


'and yet fail to actually come up with a single example of an experiment confirming those beliefs.'
Here's an experiment. have true faith and see if it makes a difference. However you must first BELIEVE in order to have this faith.lol.
Your experiment can be a 'prayer' if you like. if you totally believe, yes TOTALLY, I think you will get the proof you seek. But do you seek it? And will you dare to believe?
It's not very scientific but it is an experiment! lol

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 19 of 65 (49506)
08-08-2003 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by mike the wiz
08-08-2003 8:15 PM


Here's an experiment. have true faith and see if it makes a difference. However you must first BELIEVE in order to have this faith.lol.
You mean, you have to convince yourself of what you're trying to prove so that you can see the proof? How does that make any sense?
Here's an experiment for you - believe in evolution. There, see? Proof of evolution! After all, you believe, don't you?
Circular reasoning at it's finest.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by mike the wiz, posted 08-08-2003 8:15 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by mike the wiz, posted 08-08-2003 8:44 PM crashfrog has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 20 of 65 (49509)
08-08-2003 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by crashfrog
08-08-2003 8:33 PM


Not really because evolution is just theory, when I pray I know I can get a response. Thats what I meant. I can see admitting to God being real, fully in ones mind might be a problem , hence ..lol.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by crashfrog, posted 08-08-2003 8:33 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by crashfrog, posted 08-08-2003 8:49 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 21 of 65 (49512)
08-08-2003 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by mike the wiz
08-08-2003 8:44 PM


when I pray I know I can get a response.
But I prayed. I didn't get a response. And this was when I really, truly believed in God.
How come it works for you and not for me?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by mike the wiz, posted 08-08-2003 8:44 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by joz, posted 08-08-2003 8:50 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 23 by mike the wiz, posted 08-08-2003 8:54 PM crashfrog has replied

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 65 (49513)
08-08-2003 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by crashfrog
08-08-2003 8:49 PM


Cos God hates you Crash.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by crashfrog, posted 08-08-2003 8:49 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 23 of 65 (49517)
08-08-2003 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by crashfrog
08-08-2003 8:49 PM


No God doesn't hate you Crash (or was it you who said that lol). However he might have foreseen your path to the dark side (evolution)-lol , a joke by the way.
I guess in your experiment God failed(in your mind), personally though I think it must have been your unbelief. But dont worry too much, I'm still praying for you ! lol!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by crashfrog, posted 08-08-2003 8:49 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by crashfrog, posted 08-08-2003 8:57 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 24 of 65 (49520)
08-08-2003 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by mike the wiz
08-08-2003 8:54 PM


personally though I think it must have been your unbelief.
What, my future unbelief? Remember I totally believed at the time. So, was God punishing me because I wasn't going to believe in him in the future?
That hardly seems fair, does it? Especially because I stopped believing because of unanswered prayers (among other things.)
[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 08-08-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by mike the wiz, posted 08-08-2003 8:54 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by mike the wiz, posted 08-08-2003 8:59 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 26 by mike the wiz, posted 08-08-2003 9:05 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 25 of 65 (49521)
08-08-2003 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by crashfrog
08-08-2003 8:57 PM


Ever heard the one about the seed that did not find good ground. Those who believe but then go back to unbelieving.
Are you sure you fully believed at the time ? lol

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by crashfrog, posted 08-08-2003 8:57 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by crashfrog, posted 08-08-2003 10:50 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 26 of 65 (49522)
08-08-2003 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by crashfrog
08-08-2003 8:57 PM


Crash , if your ever in real trouble, ask Jesus for help. I would not tell you this unless I have had experience. I have , and he does help. Even if you think he doesn't exist if you ask for help, I promise if your sincere he will help- doesn't matter what you've done wrong or said, you can still ask!

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 Message 24 by crashfrog, posted 08-08-2003 8:57 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Rrhain, posted 08-08-2003 10:23 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 27 of 65 (49539)
08-08-2003 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by mike the wiz
08-08-2003 9:05 PM


mike the wiz responds to crashfrog:
quote:
Crash , if your ever in real trouble, ask Jesus for help.
He did, mike. Didn't you read his post?
But I prayed. I didn't get a response. And this was when I really, truly believed in God.
How come it works for you and not for me?
What part of "I prayed" don't you understand? What part of "I really, truly believed in God" don't you understand?
Why is it that it works for you and not for crash? It can't be a question of faith because crash had it.
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by mike the wiz, posted 08-08-2003 9:05 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 28 of 65 (49543)
08-08-2003 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by mike the wiz
08-08-2003 8:59 PM


Ever heard the one about the seed that did not find good ground. Those who believe but then go back to unbelieving.
But I'd never not believed. But I wasn't one of those people that believed out of habit, though. Basically I believed as strongly as you do.
Anyway the fact that the Bible says things like this is what suggests to me it may all be a sham - that the authors of the bible may very well have understood what a huge pill they were asking people to swallow, and thus anticipated the responses of people just a little more reasonable than the majority of believers.
Are you sure you fully believed at the time ?
Yeah, pretty sure. And who would know better than me?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by mike the wiz, posted 08-08-2003 8:59 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by mike the wiz, posted 08-09-2003 10:54 AM crashfrog has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 29 of 65 (49580)
08-09-2003 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by crashfrog
08-08-2003 10:50 PM


I will ignore Rhain as he has taken parts of the story, AGAIN.
'Basically I believed as strongly as you do.'
I would believe you, but I don't because if you did believe as much as I do , you would still believe now. My point is, I have heard the word (the seed) and I have kept on believing. So how could your belief be as strong, mine has withstood things like 'evolution' e.t.c
I don't believe God 'does not exist' because of such things as what happened with you. As God says if it does not happen it is the 'unbelief' which most certainly does shine through in your case, as you DONT believe!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by crashfrog, posted 08-08-2003 10:50 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by crashfrog, posted 08-09-2003 3:06 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 30 of 65 (49649)
08-09-2003 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by mike the wiz
08-09-2003 10:54 AM


I would believe you, but I don't because if you did believe as much as I do , you would still believe now.
Ah, but remember, I only stopped believing because God wasn't answering prayer. Up till I noticed that I had no idea I was going to becomne atheist. I expected to be a believer all my life.
See, you can't judge me at the time for what I was going to do in the future. At the time I believed as strongly as you because I planned to believe forever. But it was God's own actions - or the lack of them - that made me stop believing.
Anyway, you either believe or you don't. You can't half-believe. So "believing strongly" is really rather meaningless. Given two persons of faith, identical in every way on the exterior, what test would you use to determine which had the stronger belief?
If you have to wait for one of them to stop believing, then there's no test that can tell a strong belief from a weak belief at any given instant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by mike the wiz, posted 08-09-2003 10:54 AM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by The General, posted 09-05-2003 1:41 AM crashfrog has replied

  
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