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Author Topic:   A chance to be a pro-science activist!
commike37
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 57 (193735)
03-23-2005 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by PaulK
03-23-2005 3:40 AM


I'm no expert on Dover school board policy, so I can't answer your second question, but going to the first question, the motive does have some impact. Accepting the books would be like conceding to the protest from the DebunkCreation group, especially given the publicity this event is already receiving. One time the Pharisees had to reject the money Judas returned to them because it was blood money (and even if you're not a Pharisee, you probably wouldn't want to accept blood money). Now what was the problem with the donation? Money by itself has no moral connotation (it's not inherently good or evil), but the use of the money drastically changed the situation.
Your reference to mainstream science is very tricky, too, because you refer only to mainstream science on evolutionary theory, which is why "all sides" becomes important.
And remember, reviewing the books does not equal rejecting them. You're making an awfully big fuss even though the books could still be accepted anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by PaulK, posted 03-23-2005 3:40 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by CK, posted 03-23-2005 5:40 PM commike37 has replied
 Message 22 by PaulK, posted 03-23-2005 6:35 PM commike37 has replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 17 of 57 (193736)
03-23-2005 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by commike37
03-23-2005 5:36 PM


All sides? the ID guys have actually done some science? Where is it?
Maybe you could give us a short outline of the current research here:
http://EvC Forum: Current status/developments in Intelligent Design Theory -->EvC Forum: Current status/developments in Intelligent Design Theory
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 23-Mar-2005 05:46 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by commike37, posted 03-23-2005 5:36 PM commike37 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by AdminJar, posted 03-23-2005 5:46 PM CK has not replied
 Message 19 by commike37, posted 03-23-2005 5:57 PM CK has replied

  
AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 57 (193738)
03-23-2005 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by CK
03-23-2005 5:40 PM


Can we hold that thought
for the new thread? Just be patient for a while.

New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by CK, posted 03-23-2005 5:40 PM CK has not replied

  
commike37
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 57 (193742)
03-23-2005 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by CK
03-23-2005 5:40 PM


I actually had a quote from that Center for Science and Culture earlier that counters that perception that ID doesn't have science, but NosyNed planned to move that.
However, it will suffice to say that a biased, haughty attitude towards ID like that won't put someone in good standing with Dover. You can maintain this extreme viewpoint within this forum, but here we have an example of your perceptions hitting the world of reality (more specifically, the Dover school board).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by CK, posted 03-23-2005 5:40 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by CK, posted 03-23-2005 6:18 PM commike37 has replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 20 of 57 (193747)
03-23-2005 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by commike37
03-23-2005 5:57 PM


No that's your american reality - expect for some fringe nutcases here (UK) - it not an issue. Christians, here, know to keep their faith out of people's faces.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by commike37, posted 03-23-2005 5:57 PM commike37 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by commike37, posted 03-23-2005 6:34 PM CK has replied

  
commike37
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 57 (193752)
03-23-2005 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by CK
03-23-2005 6:18 PM


Oh, I see, you want to play some ad hominem to discredit ID solely because it might have some Christian heritage. I'm sorry, the scientific method doesn't have any room for ad hominem; it focuses strictly on evidence. And FYI, creationism and ID aren't the same. Creationism specifically refers to the Biblical God as the intelligent being, while ID is more deistic, saying there is a god or an intelligent force, but it never says whose God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by CK, posted 03-23-2005 6:18 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by CK, posted 03-23-2005 6:42 PM commike37 has replied
 Message 47 by nator, posted 03-26-2005 9:52 AM commike37 has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 22 of 57 (193753)
03-23-2005 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by commike37
03-23-2005 5:36 PM


Well apparently there was no need for any such review of the donation of Pandas and People on the grounds that no money was being spent acquiring the books. So I think that it IS odd that the school board are apparently more reluctant to accept books that are simply intended for the library.
And I don't see that the motive is any worse than the motive for distributing Pandas and People either.
Nor is there anything "tricky" about my reference to mainstream science. It is what schools SHOULD teach. They shouldn't spend time on way-out speculations that have yet to prove themselves like ID. Even the ID movement admit that they have nothing ready to teach and currently restrict themselves to attempting to censor some of the evidence for evolution.
Well maybe you are so opposed to education or science that you see them as evil - I mean you do equate them with Judas betraying Jesus to death, nor do you see anything wrong in a school board acting against the interests of education in science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by commike37, posted 03-23-2005 5:36 PM commike37 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by commike37, posted 03-23-2005 7:16 PM PaulK has replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 23 of 57 (193756)
03-23-2005 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by commike37
03-23-2005 6:34 PM


So pop over to the other thread I linked to and tell us what current research there is, how the scientific method is being applied.
piss in the pot or get off it.
(Strangely all most of the long term creationists avoided it like the plague; it most consists of us evos posting bump messages.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by commike37, posted 03-23-2005 6:34 PM commike37 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by commike37, posted 03-23-2005 7:15 PM CK has not replied

  
commike37
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 57 (193760)
03-23-2005 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by CK
03-23-2005 6:42 PM


Excuse me, but AdminJar and NosyNed are working on a new thread, and AdminJar specifically replied asking you to have patience. Now, I'm going to be patient and wait for the new thread to be created. In the meantime, I would like to follow the advice of those two without being mocked about it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by CK, posted 03-23-2005 6:42 PM CK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by NosyNed, posted 03-23-2005 8:29 PM commike37 has not replied

  
commike37
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 57 (193761)
03-23-2005 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by PaulK
03-23-2005 6:35 PM


Well apparently there was no need for any such review of the donation of Pandas and People on the grounds that no money was being spent acquiring the books. So I think that it IS odd that the school board are apparently more reluctant to accept books that are simply intended for the library.
You need to check your facts on this one.
York Daily Record
Last year, a group of residents donated 58 copies of the textbook, Of Pandas and People to Dover. The school board had researched the book, which espouses the intelligent-design concept of how life evolved, and approved it as a reference book. It is housed in the school library.
And here's something from the first post by schrafinator.
"Board president Sheila Harkins said the board's curriculum
committee will review this donation the same as it did the "Pandas"
donation."
And I don't see that the motive is any worse than the motive for distributing Pandas and People either.
Pandas and People wasn't protesting anything. It was the book that started the entire dilemna, meaning that the donaters [edit: of the Panda books] didn't have much to protest before donating it. The controversy erupted after the donation. Furthermore, the school didn't have much on ID before then, so it was a welcome addition.
Nor is there anything "tricky" about my reference to mainstream science. It is what schools SHOULD teach. They shouldn't spend time on way-out speculations that have yet to prove themselves like ID. Even the ID movement admit that they have nothing ready to teach and currently restrict themselves to attempting to censor some of the evidence for evolution.
Once again, this is one-sided mainstream science, and your outlook on ID is very one-sided, too.
Well maybe you are so opposed to education or science that you see them as evil - I mean you do equate them with Judas betraying Jesus to death, nor do you see anything wrong in a school board acting against the interests of education in science.
The whole point of the analogy was to show that the motive does matter. If you don't like that specific analogy, then I can conjure up a new one, but the basic point of the analogy will remain the same.
---
End the bias as well. You and others have portrayed IDer's as the following:
fringe nutcases, no science, acting against science, etc.
If that is true, then why do you need to keep harping about it on this forum? Is this controversy solely generated by religious radicals, and no one within this time frame ever dreamt of scientifically backing intelligent design? Why did the Dover board even consider the Pandas book? If it's so one-sided, why does this forum exist? Get real!
This message has been edited by commike37, 03-23-2005 07:17 PM
This message has been edited by commike37, 03-23-2005 09:46 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by PaulK, posted 03-23-2005 6:35 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by CK, posted 03-23-2005 7:19 PM commike37 has replied
 Message 30 by PaulK, posted 03-24-2005 3:34 AM commike37 has replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 26 of 57 (193763)
03-23-2005 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by commike37
03-23-2005 7:16 PM


quote:
get real!
Your powerful convincing evidence has won me over.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by commike37, posted 03-23-2005 7:16 PM commike37 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by commike37, posted 03-23-2005 7:23 PM CK has not replied
 Message 29 by NosyNed, posted 03-23-2005 8:31 PM CK has replied

  
commike37
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 57 (193768)
03-23-2005 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by CK
03-23-2005 7:19 PM


Are you here to debate, or make fun of me? It's starting to seem more like the latter. All I'm saying is to toss the haughty attitude, and to wait for the new thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by CK, posted 03-23-2005 7:19 PM CK has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 28 of 57 (193783)
03-23-2005 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by commike37
03-23-2005 7:15 PM


Added to existing thread
I already added our ID discussion to the end of what seemed like an appropriate thread.
Message 122

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by commike37, posted 03-23-2005 7:15 PM commike37 has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 29 of 57 (193785)
03-23-2005 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by CK
03-23-2005 7:19 PM


Does this contribute anything?
Perhaps a bit more depth in your response or no resonse would have been better?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by CK, posted 03-23-2005 7:19 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by CK, posted 03-24-2005 4:27 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 30 of 57 (193913)
03-24-2005 3:34 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by commike37
03-23-2005 7:16 PM


Well there is an obvious reason for discussing the shortcomings of ID -and that is to reveal the truth to people like you who have been deceived by the ID propaganda machine.
As for my facts the article you quote does not mention any review of the other donation. So it confirms my point.
And I must really ask why you accuse me of bias when all I am doing is telling the truth. Maybe you think that preferring truth to falsehood is mere bias ?
ID is a way-out speculative view that has got nowhere scientifically. That is a fact - and it deals only with ID as science. Qute frankly if you object to such an assertion - which does not even touch on the really controversial aspects of ID - then I really have to say that you are in the grip of overwhelming bias.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by commike37, posted 03-23-2005 7:16 PM commike37 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by commike37, posted 03-24-2005 3:28 PM PaulK has replied

  
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