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Author | Topic: Dover science teachers refuse to read ID disclaimer | |||||||||||||||||||||||
custard Inactive Member |
Hallelujah! Hossanah! Praise be to God!
Finally a win for the good guys. Although after reading the article in the NYT yesterday about how bad peer review has become, it's kind of unnerving to see the judge use scientific peer review as a reason why science and evolution ought to have more credence than ID.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 866 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
What I find is so neatly ironic about Judge Jones is that he was apponted by George W Bush.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 866 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Since the school board was basically replaced at the last election, with all 8 of the school board memembers who voted FOR I.D. defeated, the chances of appeal are non-existant. The 9th person who voted for the I.D. to be taught was not up for election.
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Adminnemooseus Inactive Administrator |
The State of Peer Review
most scientific papers are wrong? A good theme to pursue further. I suspect that the second topic might directly relate to your NY Times article. But the first topic still might be the better place to pursue the matter. Take your pick. Adminnemooseus New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
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Brad McFall Member (Idle past 5287 days) Posts: 3428 From: Ithaca,NY, USA Joined: |
If the ID movement had already discriminated schematical and symbolic outworkings
quote: quote:in evolutonary versimultidue, no matter what the probability was, the design of vicariantly CREATEABLE kinds, after the kinds, could be fathomed if the means of dispersal was a CHARM or ORNAMENT no matter what or how beautiful the forms of nature are transformed. They could have been "robbed" without knowing what was taken. I suspect the purpose was robed rather in the robbery and the trainbearer got off with the torch bearing the silver spoon (in the conservatory). I have quoted this from Kant before, quote: quote: The problem beyond probable plausibilites without the lack of contradiction having been revealed apparently is that the triple:
quote: quote:are not being worked on by those who might be inclined to make a project of the words "creation science" into "intelligent design." I would say if I had my way and had found the Court in my ball (since the ball is NOT in my court), humanity is still stealiing away from a better expression than Kant of quote: quote: I can only find the criticism, with perhaps a better but not an as wholly disproportionate result as in DOVER, only that, that, no such "a priori" exists. This however is not REALLY a religious question etc. The problem actually is for those who can not motivate the intuition and are stuck with divisions of magesteria (sic!) due to proper due regard to aesthetical deference ungrounded in the (an) end. Thus pain overcomes the desire and cognition remains less than before. Discursivity overcame systematic communication. All quotes from Critique Of Judgment by I. Kant
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Mespo Member (Idle past 3139 days) Posts: 158 From: Mesopotamia, Ohio, USA Joined: |
Simply stated, Judge Jones written decision was a scholarly, well documented, well referenced, and eloquent statement to the best legal talent we have on the bench.
It certainly became apparent to me, reading the trial transcripts and judge's decision that the defendants were clueless as to the true definition of perjury. In so doing they mocked the U.S. Courts and their Lord and Savior in one swell foop. Remind me again. Which Commandment states... "Thou Shalt lie through thy teeth to the Judge appointed by the President thou voted for to cover thy ass." (:raig
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1598 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
William Buckingham writes: I'm still waiting for a judge or anyone to show me anywhere in the Constitution where there's a separation of church and state... wow. just... wow. he really said that? i guess what the judge said about "disservice" was right.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1598 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
What I find is so neatly ironic about Judge Jones is that he was apponted by George W Bush. yup. gotta love these terrible activist judges that bush appoints. (sadly, that's only half sarcasm)
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Silent H Member (Idle past 6073 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
The Discovery Institute is posting responses to the Dover decision. This one response is particularly interesting.
It starts by admitting something rather important...
To be fair, the ACLU did present testimony supporting the plaintiffs' claim that the school board had acted for religious motives in adopting the policy requiring that a four-paragraph statement be read. Hopefully that will put to rest notions from the YEC crowd that such actions are kosher. However...
But by everyone's reckoning the debate is far from over. Recently a federal judge's rejection of a textbook in Cobb County, Georgia was sharply questioned by a federal appeals court panel when the case was argued, and a federal judge in California denied a motion to dismiss a lawsuit challenging a pro-Darwin website. Across the country, legislatures and state boards of education are taking up the question of whether and how to "teach the controversy," and they not likely to find Judge Jones' analysis persuasive. As policies emerge that are more in keeping with the American spirit of open inquiry, the Kitzmiller case will recede as an interesting and ironic footnote to the history of this scientific and cultural debate. I love how consistent they are. They are for open inquiry yet the Dover issue was patently not about opening inquiry, and one of the points mentioned above is about suppressing speech at a website. Note they are still hoping the "teach the controversy" angle will work, and using the same suggestion of how this case will be viewed years from now that they use for evolutionary theory. This message has been edited by holmes, 12-23-2005 12:26 PM holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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Percy Member Posts: 22947 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
If I can try saying this a different way, the Discovery Institute says it is going to continue packaging ID the same way it always has, despite the ease with which the judge in this case was able to see through the ruse. They believe that persistence will pay off and therefore plan to continue the obfuscation instead of engaging in true scientific research and the composition of sound, rational arguments.
--Percy
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Silent H Member (Idle past 6073 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
the Discovery Institute says it is going to continue packaging ID the same way it always has, despite the ease with which the judge in this case was able to see through the ruse. You are absolutely correct, I just found this other article at DI, which suggests their new strategy...
“Judge Jones’ decision about teaching intelligent design is legally irrelevant for Ohio’s Critical Analysis of Evolution model science curriculum,” says legal scholar and Gonzaga University law professor David DeWolf... “Not only is Ohio outside of Judge Jones’ legal jurisdiction, but the Ohio State science education standards explicitly acknowledge that they do not require the teaching of intelligent design, so his determination that intelligent design is not science doesn't affect the actions of the Ohio Board of Education.” ... which means repackaging as offering simply "critical analysis of evolution". The irony being they are saying how great this avenue might be because it won't involve their theory of intelligent design. Some might find this more satisfying anyway as it will allow them the ability to throw stones at evolutionary theory without ever having to try and create a solid secondary theory. I love the wrap up...
“Unlike the ACLU, we want students to learn more about evolution, not less,” said Dr. John West, associate director of Discovery Institute’s Center for Science & Culture. “Students need to learn Darwinian evolution because it is the dominant theory of biological evolution. But, they also need to learn about some of the scientific evidence that challenges parts of the theory.” Hahahahahahahaha... holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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Steen Inactive Member |
Over the last couple of years, the "teaching the controversy" term has been cropping up
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1721 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Over the last couple of years, the "teaching the controversy" term has been cropping up The "term" is BS. There's no "controversy" whatsoever, except among laypeople and the creationists are trying to snowball them.
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Iblis Member (Idle past 4149 days) Posts: 663 Joined: |
Martha Raffaele from the AP
DOVER, Pa. - Dover's much-maligned school policy of presenting "intelligent design" as an alternative to evolution was officially relegated to the history books Tuesday night. On a voice vote, and with no discussion beforehand, the newly elected Dover Area School Board unanimously rescinded the policy. Two weeks earlier, a judge ruled the policy unconstitutional. "This is it," new school board president Bernadette Reinking said Tuesday, indicating the vote was final and the case was closed. http://news.yahoo.com/...0104/ap_on_re_us/evolution_showdown This message has been edited by Iblis, 01-04-2006 03:28 AM
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ramoss Member (Idle past 866 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
You know that. I know that. However, the followers of I.D. don't know that.
They dont' WANT to know that.
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