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Author Topic:   Nations founding documents under attack
Swift
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 28 (166813)
12-10-2004 12:26 AM


In recent days a school in California has fiered a teacher and banned documents like the Constitution and Declaration of Independence just for the fact that the documents mention God.
I would like to know how other people fell about it. As for me i think it is discrimanatory to christians (since the guy who got booted was a christian) and trys to hide the truth about our past and since Im a person who likes to know the truth it seems to not set well with me.
But how about you?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by NosyNed, posted 12-10-2004 1:14 AM Swift has replied
 Message 9 by Coragyps, posted 12-10-2004 10:13 AM Swift has not replied
 Message 10 by crashfrog, posted 12-10-2004 10:56 AM Swift has not replied
 Message 24 by NosyNed, posted 12-13-2004 12:26 AM Swift has not replied
 Message 28 by Kevin, posted 12-21-2004 3:13 AM Swift has not replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 28 (166832)
12-10-2004 1:13 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9003
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 3 of 28 (166834)
12-10-2004 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Swift
12-10-2004 12:26 AM


My guess
My guess is that it didn't happen as it appears from your description or not at all.
How about some back up and details?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Swift, posted 12-10-2004 12:26 AM Swift has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by jar, posted 12-10-2004 1:27 AM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 13 by Swift, posted 12-10-2004 5:34 PM NosyNed has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 4 of 28 (166841)
12-10-2004 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by NosyNed
12-10-2004 1:14 AM


Re: My guess
I imagine he is talking about the Cupertino teacher suing the school district. Still much to come out and it will be an interesting case. It appears that the teacher was quotemining various documents and only presenting part of the information. The district did not ban the Declaration (from all I've been able to gather the Constitution was not an issue) and what was questioned was his material on religion.
Here is a link to a Mercury News article on the incident.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1364 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 5 of 28 (166864)
12-10-2004 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by jar
12-10-2004 1:27 AM


Re: My guess
link needs a subscription.
some quotes, or another link perhaps?
This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 12-10-2004 02:28 AM

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Replies to this message:
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berberry
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 28 (166866)
12-10-2004 2:33 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by arachnophilia
12-10-2004 2:28 AM


Re: My guess
No it doesn't. Just fill out the form to register, it doesn't cost anything. It's safe; I registered there months ago and they haven't sent me any spam.

Dog is my copilot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by arachnophilia, posted 12-10-2004 2:28 AM arachnophilia has replied

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1364 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 7 of 28 (166873)
12-10-2004 3:07 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by berberry
12-10-2004 2:33 AM


Re: My guess
but i'm lazy!

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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 28 (166909)
12-10-2004 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by arachnophilia
12-10-2004 3:07 AM


Re: My guess
Google, "+cupertino +ban +declaration +school"

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 755 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 9 of 28 (166932)
12-10-2004 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Swift
12-10-2004 12:26 AM


I've noticed that the US Constitution is under attack, but much of what I've noticed is from the White House rather than from some school principal.
There's a discussion of this same situation over at Internet Infidels - it appears that the whole story isn't yet public, but that the teacher was being real selective in what he presented.
Oops! We ran into some problems. | Internet Infidels Discussion Board

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 Message 1 by Swift, posted 12-10-2004 12:26 AM Swift has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1487 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 10 of 28 (166938)
12-10-2004 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Swift
12-10-2004 12:26 AM


But the US Constitution doesn't mention "God". The Declaration of Independance simply says "Creator."
These aren't Christian documents, in any sense. So I'm not sure how you find it discriminatory to Christians. From your obviously erroneous description I find it rather likely that it didn't happen this way, at all.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by coffee_addict, posted 12-10-2004 11:59 AM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 12 by Loudmouth, posted 12-10-2004 12:14 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 11 of 28 (166957)
12-10-2004 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by crashfrog
12-10-2004 10:56 AM


the frog writes:
So I'm not sure how you find it discriminatory to Christians.
The same way that they bitch about us not giving them credit for the invention of human rights... or the blocking of.

Hate world.
Revenge soon!

This message is a reply to:
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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 28 (166958)
12-10-2004 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by crashfrog
12-10-2004 10:56 AM


quote:
But the US Constitution doesn't mention "God". The Declaration of Independance simply says "Creator."
Exactly. The word "God" appears nowhere in the US Constitution, and religion is only mentioned in exclusionary terms. The Declaration of Independence uses the phrase "Nature's God" which is a reference to the Deist philosophy, not the Christian God. The Deist god is by far the most maleable deity there is and makes no judgements on the existence of non-existence of a particluar religion's deities.
It would seem that people are starting to believe in the christian right propoganda. The USA was not founded on christianity, it's laws were not derived from christian morals, or country was not even that christian (only about 10% went to church on a regular basis), and most of our founding fathers were Deists, not Christians. Our government was founded on secular ideas and the secular philosophies of the Renaissance, including those philosophies defined by non-christians such as Locke and Voltaire. James Madison, the "Father of the Constitution", was almost anti-christian in his views. Madison viewed the inclusion of religion into government as one of the worst things that America could do.
For these reasons, teachers have no reason, politically or religiously, to ban those documents from public schoolrooms.

This message is a reply to:
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Swift
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 28 (167036)
12-10-2004 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by NosyNed
12-10-2004 1:14 AM


Re: My guess
School Bars Declaration Of Independence | The Smoking Gun
And i found out that it wasint the US Constitution but various state constitutions that was banned. I guess I may have missheard. Plus they banned other documents than what I knew of.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by NosyNed, posted 12-10-2004 1:14 AM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by NosyNed, posted 12-10-2004 5:47 PM Swift has not replied
 Message 18 by Morte, posted 12-10-2004 10:33 PM Swift has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9003
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 14 of 28 (167039)
12-10-2004 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Swift
12-10-2004 5:34 PM


California Case
Reading over the complaint it sure sounds like the school is wrong in this. However, I'll have to wait to read the statement of defense.
It has an odd flavour to it to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Swift, posted 12-10-2004 5:34 PM Swift has not replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 17 by Morte, posted 12-10-2004 9:59 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
bob_gray
Member (Idle past 5034 days)
Posts: 243
From: Virginia
Joined: 05-03-2004


Message 15 of 28 (167062)
12-10-2004 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by NosyNed
12-10-2004 5:47 PM


Re: California Case
I'm not sure if I'm reading the case correctly but the last one of their "statement of facts" (page 8) is "this nation was founded on the Judeo-Christian heritage". It would appear that this "fact" in the case is part of California’s History-Social Science Content Standards. If that is true then I fear you may be right.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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