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Author Topic:   Do you share the optimism of Edward O Wilson?
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5873 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 16 of 22 (403082)
05-31-2007 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by AZPaul3
05-29-2007 1:20 PM


All agreed. But the catchphrases and the bumper stickers and the view we give our young people are bogus. The problem is we divert attention from the real issue. Whales, rain forests and global warming are but threads in a tapestry; one that we are woven into. While important in addressing the main issue this stuff is fluff that does not focus on the issue at hand.
True enough - and I agree with your analogy about "threads in a tapestry". However, I submit that I agree only because I am both intimately engaged in the issues as a profession, and have years of study and experience behind me to support my understanding. The point of the bumper stickers and catchphrases is not to present the entire picture, but to engage the average person (who's attention span I fully believe is measured in nanoseconds). In the business we call the whales, dolphins, baby chimps, pandas, etc the "charismatic" species - the ones that average, non-ecologist/non-conservation biologists see and go "awwwww". Those are the images that stick in people's minds, and that are concrete enough (and let's face it, cute enough), to motivate people to donate or otherwise get involved. Without that, people will simply ignore the issues - because they have way too many other things to occupy themselves with. There's a reason why the World Wildlife Fund, for instance and among others, has adopted a charismatic as their logo.
Unless we are upfront, honest and adamant about it the heart gets diverted into (albeit important) minutia. The real drive needs to be stated clearly and precisely so there is no mistake about what is at issue here. The issue is not “Save The Dolphins” or “Save The Snail Darter” or “Save The Majestic Bald Eagle.” The issue here is “Save The Humans.”
Again, I agree with you. However, to "save the humans" as you note, we need to preserve as much as possible the natural ecosystems upon which we depend - whether the average person knows it or not. However, I completely believe that using easily visualized or even "cute" organisms or easily remembered catchphrases is far more effective in reaching the average person than lecturing about environmental economics or the value of ecosystem services. After all, the vast majority of people with "Save the Rainforest" bumperstickers are NOT going to be the ones teaching a Cofan village about integrated farming techniques as an alternative to traditional destructive exploitation patterns. The folks that ARE actually doing that, I can assure you, are fully aware of the, erm, holistic nature of the problem and the complexity of the potential solutions.
Kids think whales are in danger and have been told this is not good but the reinforcement of “why” is left out.
I wanted to take this seperately. You're absolutely right. This goes back to what Taz said above, and I supported: education is the key to the future of both our species and a myriad of others. Unfortunately, most environmental ed that I've encountered (outside a university, at least), is sadly lacking in explaining the "why's". It is even worse in the developing world where the people are most directly involved in environmental degradation (at least of the tropics). Conservationists really only been focusing on this aspect of the issue for a decade or so. The best mix of practical alternatives, development, education, and conservation has yet to be discovered.

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Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5873 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 17 of 22 (403083)
05-31-2007 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by ogon
05-29-2007 3:07 AM


Re: Life Is Already Safe - Thank You - Sorta
I can do everything in my power to save life on Earth but at the end of the day I don't have ultimate control or power do I? Bring on the worlds governments. What they want is what we are going to get. They are driven by forces much larger than what we are driven by.
You, as an individual, probably don't have any power to effect global change. Nor do I. Nor does any other single individual. But I'd like to give you a quote that I think is very apropos.
quote:
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. (Margaret Mead)
I have this framed, sitting next to my computer. It's what keeps me going in the face of a million irritations, setbacks, cases of deliberate obtuseness or genuine ignorance. There's "faith" for you.
Edited by Quetzal, : spelling

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 18 of 22 (403103)
05-31-2007 8:26 PM


Gaia teaches
One thing I have learnt from life is that if 'we' don`t adapt to changing conditions, Gaia will soon correct us. Many species have faced change in the past by extinction, adaptation or moving geologically. With arable land declining due to construction, overusage or the current threat, lack of water, where will populations move to?
With essential minerals exploited (and wasted) by the human race, can substitutes fill the gap? Tin is a finite resource for canning, so we change to plastics. Which are usually petroleum-based. Oil supplies seem to be limited, yet we are reluctant to expand to alternative energy sources in a major way. Which won`t help products based on petroleum when that runs low.
We over-apply fertilisers, pesticides to crops and let the surplus poison the majority of water systems. In the poorer countries, slash-and-burn continues to lay waste increasing areas with few restrictions on farmers. And who can blame them? They are just trying to survive. Eventually, Gaia will provide the wall of no returns.
Even the seas of the world are facing declining catches in spite of their size and prolificacy. Any responsible moves by fishermen to limit their catches? Nope, they just move into deeper or more unpalatable species.
So, regardless of well-meaning efforts to change our wasteful ways and live lives adjusted to a balance between need and availability, mankind will proceed to the point where we either kill each other in a fight for resources, or we may try to rope in both our population and our consumption. Either way, Gaia will triumph. Another pesky species reined in. Evolution in action.
With our track record, I can`t see the sensible approach winning. I know which side I`m betting on.
Edited by Nighttrain, : Clarification

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by ogon, posted 06-01-2007 6:45 PM Nighttrain has replied

  
ogon
Member (Idle past 6130 days)
Posts: 70
Joined: 05-13-2007


Message 19 of 22 (403294)
06-01-2007 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Nighttrain
05-31-2007 8:26 PM


education
I want to return to the question of optimism now and explain why I started this thread.
Yes, I am enthused by guys like Wilson, and guys like yourselves, and as a teacher I have tried as much as I can to bring such enthusiasm about our world, and its present predicament, into the classroom and school environment. BUT, top of the agenda in our schools, at least here in the UK, is performance. Whether the students learn anything of any relevance isn't important. What is important is that schools can prove they are reaching targets and getting good ratings in exam results. Enough said I think.
What I attempted to do in my last school was use the school environment as a resource for teaching students about the world they live in and how to care for that world. I wanted to start a GREEN COMMITTEE. This would be a committee comprising students, teaching staff, parents, local businesses, and the local community. Basically, this particular school had quite a lot of grounds surrounding the school. My idea was to use these grounds to educate students about our world and the environment in which they live. As a committee we would section up the grounds and in each section plan and develop an area which could be used for educational purposes.The areas would be accessible to students from 2-19 years of age. Such as, a wet area to learn about amphibians and water life, a planted area of flower beds to learn about flowers, seed reproduction, e.t.c., a dry river bed area, an area of wild flowers, an area of cultivated vegetables, an area to attract wildlife and birdlife, you get the idea? The idea's would have come from the committee, manpower would have come from students, staff and parents, resources would have been supplied from local businesses.
I took quite a bit of time putting these ideas into a presentable format and presenting it to the headteacher. The result? nothing!
The school is focusing on other things at the moment! I believe these other things to be performance targets for both students and staff. I no longer teach at this school.
How about a worldwide network of REAL schools guys? Schools covering the basic curriculum areas but with a focus on REAL issues facing the planet and the lives of its inhabitants. There could also be an emphasis on particular qualifications and employment prospects related to these issues/areas.
This might seem a joke to some I guess, but can any of you guys see anything in such an idea?
ogon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Nighttrain, posted 05-31-2007 8:26 PM Nighttrain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Quetzal, posted 06-01-2007 7:40 PM ogon has not replied
 Message 21 by Nighttrain, posted 06-01-2007 7:41 PM ogon has not replied

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5873 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 20 of 22 (403304)
06-01-2007 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by ogon
06-01-2007 6:45 PM


Re: education
Sorry to hear about your school. From what I understand, this type of thinking is widespread in the US public (gov't - I know that means something else in the UK) school system.
How about a worldwide network of REAL schools guys? Schools covering the basic curriculum areas but with a focus on REAL issues facing the planet and the lives of its inhabitants. There could also be an emphasis on particular qualifications and employment prospects related to these issues/areas.
It's a brilliant idea. In fact, it's so brilliant that people are already doing it. The Foundation I work for has programs with Youth International, Ecuador's GEO Juvenil Ecuador, and QUEST Overseas. The Foundation will also start hosting this fall Ecuadorian (and ultimately international) programs of Youth-to-Youth International. In addition the Foundation is working out reciprocity agreements with some 26 UK schools (Midlands and Wales) that will ultimately involve youth exchanges between the Foundation's technical school in the Amazon and student groups from the UK. For precisely the type of intensive exposure and hopefully understanding that you're espousing. Finally, I hope to host the IB/AP Biology groups from the two Quito international schools - Alliance Academy and Cotopaxi Academy - at the foundation's rainforest preserve next spring.
Should there be more? Absolutely. If you're interested, send an email to admin@ with a request for it to be forwarded to me.
Edited by Quetzal, : dropped quote

This message is a reply to:
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 21 of 22 (403305)
06-01-2007 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by ogon
06-01-2007 6:45 PM


Re: education
Praise to you, Ogon, for trying to make a difference. My son taught at a few English schools, but gave it away to tutor because of how the pupils were allowed to run the classes. With the blessings of staff and principal (anything to avoid upsetting parents).
In Australia, many schools have ecology projects, gardens, nature study areas set aside to involve pupils at the primary level. High schools (secondary) seem to leave these aside, but often take field trips. Unfortunately, the lessons learnt don`t seem to be carried into adulthood. The same old attitude of 'the world is yours, go ahead and rape it' is still paramount in community and business. When the chickens come home to roost, I wonder if the excuse will be 'why didn`t someone tell us?'

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 22 of 22 (403553)
06-03-2007 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ogon
05-27-2007 5:45 PM


bogo
i have a great deal of hope for the world. i'm not optimistic per se. i know that people are selfish. but. i also know that there are many people for whom a desire to improve the lives of others overcomes their selfishness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ogon, posted 05-27-2007 5:45 PM ogon has not replied

  
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