|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
|
Author | Topic: Which religion's creation story should be taught? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9477 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.0 |
So, If the Supreme Court says something, or does something, that is opposite of what the ‘Constitution of the United States of America’ says then the Supreme Court is wrong and the ‘Constitution of the United States of America’ is right. The constitution isn't a living breathing thing. The Constitution cannot be right or wrong. It has been interpreted many times and many ways by the courts. According to the constitution, the Supreme Court is allowed to determinbe the constitutionality of laws. If they say it is unconstitutional then that is it. Other courts could decide otherwise in the future but until then that is the final say. The Supreme Court cannot make an unconstitutional decision. They may make a decision that someone thinks goes against the constituition, but that does not make the decision unconstitutional. P.S.Drop the colors. It makes your post hard to read and makes you look even more juvenile than your arguments do. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9477 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.0 |
Since the United States of America was founded by Christians so that Christians could follow the dictates of their faith (religion) without fear of reprisal from non-Christians (both in government and in the privet sector) Please show me where this is evidenced? Just one little source please. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9477 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.0 |
lthough Christian teachings, the Bible, and principles were the majority rule at the time (i.e. most accepted these facts at the time, thus they controlled the laws, norms, customs, ect).
I have a big problem with this statement. Most of the people of the original colonies were not a deeply religious people. We have this vision of everyone that emigrated to America s people that were escaping religious persecution. This is far from true. The elites tended to be thus(Puritan leaders, the Penns, the Catholics in Maryland0, but the average everyday person was not caught up ion religious fervor. Were they christians? Yes. But not christian as you know it now. The American christian you know now was a result of the Great Awakenings. The second and third are the probable basis for the evangelical Christianity people want to associate with colonial America. This new type of christianity though was post formation of the USA. Also, the laws norms and customs of the americas were not based on christianity. They were based on english common law. Were there christian undertones to it? Of course, but the prime basis was english common law that has roots in the pre christian england. The ideals in the Constitution are not Christian. Where do you find them in christian writings? A lot of the ideas go back to the greeks and romans. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9477 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.0 |
Do I smell a new true Scotsmen coming?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9477 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.0 |
Would you please define ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ for me so I have a frame of reference to rebut your statement? Since you are the one that brought up 'right' and 'wrong', you will need to be the one to define them.
So, If the Supreme Court says something, or does something, that is opposite of what the ‘Constitution of the United States of America’ says then the Supreme Court is wrong and the ‘Constitution of the United States of America’ is right. Message 115 I’ll try to remember to leave the coloring out for you; I use it to make it clearer whom or what I am quoting. If it does not offend you; mite I suggest you ‘copy’ and ‘past’ the text to your favorite word processor and change the text color to black. Ever notice how everyone else gets along with understanding peoples quotes without a need for lame colors. I realize you think it makes your arguments impressive, but they do not. The green is tough to read against the blue background and the red is especially hard to pick out with that cursive script you seem to favor.But if you think it helps your arguments an makes you look better, by all means keep it up. Maybe I am the only one that feels this way so why don't you just ignore me. How about you actually try to make your argument. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9477 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.0 |
That my be so, however, the phrase We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights in the ‘Declaration of Independence’ is nether an after though (like the Amendments to the ‘Constitution’) nor something added to warred of evil spirits. First of all, the Declaration is not a US legal document. Secondly, the use of "creator", is not a reference to the christian god. This and the other terms used in the declaration like Nature’s God, and Divine Providence were terms used in the deism that was common among many of the founding fathers. Just looking at the beliefs of the writer of the declaration will show that it is in no way a reference to the Christan god. It could be a reference to any deity and no deity. That is the beauty of the founding fathers. They did not set much in stone. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9477 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.0 |
First of all the Declaration is not a US legal document.
Secondly, still looking for any reference to christianity. So, I guess on your part that is a fail. You may also want to check out this link: Legal Information Institute
Nothing about christianity there, other than the Mayflower compact and a ruling by the supreme court that religion as a place in American society, but nothing stated that Christianity is the correct one. Therefore this statement
Since the United States of America was founded by Christians so that Christians could follow the dictates of their faith (religion) without fear of reprisal from non-Christians (both in government and in the privet sector)
from Message 128is still not evidenced. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9477 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.0 |
But that was even beside the point; I was making the point that If the Supreme Court says something, or does something, that is opposite of what the ‘Constitution of the United States of America’ says then the Supreme Court is wrong and the ‘Constitution of the United States of America’ is right. In other words if the judgments of the Supreme Court do not accord with what the ‘Constitution of the United States of America’ actually says then the Supreme Court is wrong. Or, let me put it this way: If the Supreme Court say something and the ‘Constitution of the United States of America’ says just the opposite then the Supreme Court is wrong. Who is responsible for determining what the constitution means? Do you have an example where the Constitution is "right", but the Supreme Court was "wrong"? Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9477 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.0 |
I am really not sure how you think TJ's 1st inaugural supports your view. Maybe you can 'splain.
How about this line from the same speech.
quote: Does this support your view too? If so, how? Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9477 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.0 |
It is a Federal Government document
Not it isn't. Neither is the Mayflower Compact or the Articles of Confederation.
Please, read what Thomas Jefferson (One of the ‘Deists’ who sighed ‘The Declaration of Independence’) said when he implemented ‘Thanksgiving’ ‘General Thanksgiving By the PRESIDENT of the United States Of America A PROCLAMATION
Excuse me while I laugh a bit. Cutting and pasting from fundy sites will always get you in trouble. Did you even bother to follow the link?Let me see who signed it. Oh George Washington. Not Thomas Jefferson. quote:Source If you don't like wiki as a source. I can find dozens more that will confirm this. Maybe you were confused between Thomas Jefferson and Jefferson Davis.
quote:Source Gee how did that lord of hosts do for them? Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9477 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.0 |
First of all I do not even know who Richard Lewontin is, but he is not some sort of high priest of Atheism and he speaks only for himself, no one else.
Second maybe you should read the whole quote, not just snippets that have been altered. No where does he mention atheists. Where in the original is Atheist mentioned?
quote: The "we" seems to be generally people with a science background as a whole, not atheists. Unless you think all scientific people are atheists. Some comments on how what he said was manipulated.
quote: Remember creationist sites lie. Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given. Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9477 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.0 |
You had a whole post, even pretty fonts, and still you provided no evidence.
‘Just because you do not see it does not mean it is not there.’
You have provided nothing to see. Repeatedly you have been asked to provide evidence of Christianity in the Constitution and to date you have not provided one scrap of evidence.
You, being a non-Christian, may not recognize the references to the Christian faith in these things, however, that does not mean they are not there; Does it?
What are the references?
In what sense of legal document are you speaking of?
It is not a US government document. It is a document prior to the formation of the United States. Though it is and should be accorded great respect it's purpose was to separate the United States from Britain, not to prescribe legal rights for the people living in the colonies.
Whether or not the Declaration is a legal U.S. document is not really relevant to my point; I’m just curious.
If you want to state that Christianity is the basis of US law then it is. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9477 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.0 |
Where, in the Constitution of the United States of Americas, is establishment Forbidden?
You ever heard of the first amendment?
quote: I am not going to link to a source on the internet. You should be able to find it on your own. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9477 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.0 |
Still no evidence I see. Gee, colour me surprised.
Are you ready to admit there is no evidence of christianity in the US Constitution?
The evidence for Christianity being in the ‘Constitution of the United States of America’ is vested in the people who framed the Constitution; what they lived for, what they fought for; what they stood for, and who they were.
I am not sure what this mumbo-jumbo means, but I think you are trying to say that it is what you believe so it is true. Am I right? Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9477 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.0 |
Wow.
Is it that you can't read or is there a comprehension issue? You live in reverse world? So to you
quote:means the gov't cannot make any law preventing the establishment of religion? Can you show any legal or constitutional scholars that agree with this?Can you show that any founding fathers meant this bizarre interpretation? Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024