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Author Topic:   HELP!
nos482
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 90 (18110)
09-24-2002 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Quetzal
09-24-2002 3:52 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Quetzal:
quote:
Originally posted by xstremefaith:
Today was my first day in college and 5 minutes into my history class i knew i was in trouble! What a suprise(not)...Evolution is the main discussion for the next couple of weeks! I have studied and studied and I know evolution is wrong and science can't prove it! I just don't remember any good arguments and what not. I need HELP...any good tips on surviving a secular history class being a strong Christian? What am i supposed to do when a test comes and asks for a fact answer when really it's only a nonplausible theory i can give them??? THANX!
I'm curious. How is it that you are studying evolution in a college-level history class? Usually that subject is relegated to intro biology courses. Even then, it's usually relegated to a footnote in non-science major biology courses, which try and cover things like the Krebs cycle and introductory stuff about biomes, etc. Is it a history of science course?

I was taught about evolution in history class, well at least in grade 10.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Quetzal, posted 09-24-2002 3:52 AM Quetzal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Quetzal, posted 09-24-2002 9:35 AM nos482 has replied

nos482
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 90 (18111)
09-24-2002 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by xstremefaith
09-23-2002 11:40 PM


quote:
Originally posted by xstremefaith:
excuse me what scientific evidence were you talking about???? The fact that there are NO transitional links and intermediate forms in either the fossil record or modern world, therefore, no evidence that evolution has occured in the past or present??? Or wait maybe you were talking about the evidence that Natural selection is incapable of advancing an organism to a "higher-order". OR wiat i think it's this little tidbit of info....although evolutionist state that life resulted from non-life, matter resulted from nothing, and humans resulted from animals, each of these is an impossibility of SCIENCE and the natural world. I was mistaken...it's this evidence 9 of the 12 popularly supposed hominids are actually extinct apes/monkeys and not part human at all...the other three are FULLY human. Oops...my bad...need i go on>
I was correct, you didn't learn anything. You were lied to.
Go here and see why you are wrong on so many levels.
The Talk.Origins Archive Index

This message is a reply to:
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wj
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 90 (18117)
09-24-2002 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by xstremefaith
09-23-2002 11:19 PM


Is this typical of the American education system?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by xstremefaith, posted 09-23-2002 11:19 PM xstremefaith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Joe Meert, posted 09-24-2002 10:05 AM wj has not replied
 Message 21 by nos482, posted 09-24-2002 10:10 AM wj has not replied

Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5871 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 19 of 90 (18123)
09-24-2002 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by nos482
09-24-2002 8:24 AM


Really? Cool. I didn't see my first lecture on evolution until my junior year or so (Principles of Ecology, or it might have been Principles of Environmental Science - anyway, something like that). I admit, however, that I attended college with H. erectus so things have probably changed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by nos482, posted 09-24-2002 8:24 AM nos482 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5679 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 20 of 90 (18125)
09-24-2002 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by wj
09-24-2002 8:52 AM


quote:
Originally posted by wj:
Is this typical of the American education system?
JM: This student was homeschooled. Basically, it's a crapshoot whether or not the education received was any good. Having said that, the public school systems here in the US have some problems. It's one of the reasons pseudoscience and mysticism have such a strong base here in the US.
Cheers
Joe Meert

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nos482
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 90 (18127)
09-24-2002 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by wj
09-24-2002 8:52 AM


quote:
Originally posted by wj:
Is this typical of the American education system?
Sadly, yes.

This message is a reply to:
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nos482
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 90 (18128)
09-24-2002 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Quetzal
09-24-2002 9:35 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Quetzal:
Really? Cool. I didn't see my first lecture on evolution until my junior year or so (Principles of Ecology, or it might have been Principles of Environmental Science - anyway, something like that). I admit, however, that I attended college with H. erectus so things have probably changed.
Remember, I'm from Canada, we're a bit more progressive in education. Eh?

This message is a reply to:
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Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 7576 days)
Posts: 634
From: Washington, USA
Joined: 12-10-2001


Message 23 of 90 (18132)
09-24-2002 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by peter borger
09-24-2002 4:10 AM


quote:
Originally posted by peter borger:
dear Mr Pamboli,
Now we are back at the level of 'argumentum ad verecundiam'. Study all opinions and choose. Making a choise, that's what it is all about.

I think you will find it was an argumentum ludicrum - an intentionally jocular fallacy to point out the failing in another's line of reasoning.
The point was: just repeating that evolution is a fairytale is meaningless and leads to no fruitful discussion. Why should anyone reply to your post with any more information, or any more seriousness than I did?
[This message has been edited by Mister Pamboli, 09-24-2002]

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 24 of 90 (18136)
09-24-2002 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Joe Meert
09-24-2002 7:08 AM


Joe Meert writes:

JM: Let me see all the spam in this message. A history course spending 2 weeks on evolution. Unless this is a history of science course, I don't buy it. You've studied and studied it and know it's wrong, but you can't remember any arguments? Later on you post a few cribbed creationist claims without proper referencing? My suggestion is forget about your worries about evolution and start working on your writing skills. I always allow my students to get credit if they can posit a sound argument in favor of their position. Ask your prof if this is possible.
I also question whether Xstremefaith is being forthright with us. Until he describes his situation in terms that seem honest and make sense I'm inclined to ignore this thread.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Joe Meert, posted 09-24-2002 7:08 AM Joe Meert has not replied

acmhttu001_2006
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 90 (18140)
09-24-2002 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by xstremefaith
09-23-2002 11:19 PM


You should answer the way the prof wants you to answer. You do not have to believe anything you do not want to. If you are already shaky, then you do not have a strong foundation.
I am an atheist. If I could give some information, find somone who is stronger in your belief system and talk to them.
If you are really a Christain your faith should not be shaky at this point.
------------------
Anne C. McGuire
Cell and Molecular, Mathematics, Piano and Vocal Performance Majors
Chemistry and Physics minors
Thanks and have a nice day

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by xstremefaith, posted 09-23-2002 11:19 PM xstremefaith has not replied

Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5032 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 26 of 90 (18144)
09-24-2002 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by gene90
09-23-2002 11:29 PM


I know that I am violating a bit of the weave in this thread here, but in some defense to the thread-head; I know that I have not in reality (for who is to say that posting here is reality. It exists. I give it that. etc)"survived" Will Provine's class "Evolution and Ethics". Oh, I got a C- for as much work as would go into an A for Biochem but it does seem to me now that my Religion was the reason that I could not survive despite me being "fit" to discuss all of the issues raised and besides the point I had been really thinking about the content for years. I came to the decided that GOD controls my thought and I was LEARNING evolutionary theory on an organismal basis that still supported this belief.
There is a part of this course where Will being A historian was becoming a biologist on the same campus that worked against my allready formed notion to any being dynamical that still seems to mean that my materialism is confused with the common naturalism. Naturalism discusses only ONE nature while there are many material possibilites during the only process of biological change but to Believe that ONLY the brain remained OUTSIDE this understanding was something I could not believe and did not. Something like this is what caused the wedge and a falling out to come between the historian and the biologist. You decide who I am talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by gene90, posted 09-23-2002 11:29 PM gene90 has not replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3822 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 27 of 90 (18157)
09-24-2002 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Joe Meert
09-24-2002 7:08 AM


For me, Week One of college western civ covered evolution and the earliest humans. There was probably a whole question devoted to it on the test.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Percy, posted 09-24-2002 4:05 PM gene90 has replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 28 of 90 (18159)
09-24-2002 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by gene90
09-24-2002 3:33 PM


Oh, now I get it. It didn't make sense to me that a history course would spend significant time on evolution, and I bet his course doesn't. The first chapter of his book probably begins by discussing theories about the evolutionary paths leading to the first humans, moves through the stone age, then ends with the latest pre-historical period, perhaps with plant and animal domestication, the earliest farmers, development of ceramics and the utilization of metals. At that point he's on the threshold of recorded history and ready to study the first civilizations of the fertile crescent.
I wonder if he'll have as big a problem with civilizations that predate creation as he does with evolution.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by gene90, posted 09-24-2002 3:33 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by gene90, posted 09-24-2002 8:30 PM Percy has not replied

TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 90 (18162)
09-24-2002 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by xstremefaith
09-23-2002 11:19 PM


"Today was my first day in college and 5 minutes into my history class i knew i was in trouble! What a suprise(not)...Evolution is the main discussion for the next couple of weeks!"
--Not surprised.
"I have studied and studied and I know evolution is wrong and science can't prove it!"
--Your perception of scientific study is faulty, and your understanding of mechanics of science-logic is likewize.
"I just don't remember any good arguments and what not. I need HELP...any good tips on surviving a secular history class being a strong Christian? What am i supposed to do when a test comes and asks for a fact answer when really it's only a nonplausible theory i can give them??? THANX!"
--When approaching the discussion of Evolutionary development in this historical sense, your best bed is to keep an even handed mind-set. Realize that such a theoretical teaching of ancestry is just that, a theoretical teaching of ancestry. Unfortunately to carry on a conversation on the subject would in the most part require you to have knowledge on the workings of scientific inquiry as well as knowledge on the theory of Evolution itself. Just enjoy learning more on the subject while it is available. Suck it in and know that there isn't real conflict between Christianity and Evolutionary development. You will also find that in delving into evolutionary concepts that what has happened in the past when referring to evolutionary development is a bit of a far cry away from the question of it happening before our eyes. Its just that when putting together data you can find that it is possible to make a coherent model using paleographic or historically remnant type information & today's documented change.
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by xstremefaith, posted 09-23-2002 11:19 PM xstremefaith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Minnemooseus, posted 09-25-2002 1:05 AM TrueCreation has replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3822 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 30 of 90 (18170)
09-24-2002 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Percy
09-24-2002 4:05 PM


Exactly. We did a brief overview of the stone age and then into the west via Egypt and Chaldea.

This message is a reply to:
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