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Author Topic:   No evolution/creation debate in Europe
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1513 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 41 of 107 (443165)
12-23-2007 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Buzsaw
12-23-2007 8:43 PM


Re: Confusing mechanisms with causation
... but there are varying ideologies among scientists ...
From christian to any other religion to atheistic. What you are looking for is an overall philosophy for science.
See naturalism
quote:
Naturalism is any of several philosophical stances, typically those descended from materialism and pragmatism, that do not distinguish the supernatural (including strange entities like non-natural values, and universals as they are commonly conceived) from nature. Naturalism does not necessarily claim that phenomena or hypotheses commonly labeled as supernatural do not exist or are wrong, but insists that all phenomena and hypotheses can be studied by the same methods and therefore anything considered supernatural is either nonexistent or not inherently different from natural phenomena or hypotheses. Some naturalists also insist that a legitimate distinction between supernatural entities and natural entities cannot be properly made (focusing on the conceptual distinction itself), and that when someone is talking or thinking about supernatural entities, they are actually referring to natural entities (though confusedly).
Pretty big umbrella.
Enjoy.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Buzsaw, posted 12-23-2007 8:43 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Buzsaw, posted 12-23-2007 10:50 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1513 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 44 of 107 (443199)
12-24-2007 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Buzsaw
12-23-2007 10:50 PM


Re: Confusing mechanisms with causation
So is the phrase you quoted from me correct or not?
It's correct, but not because of anything in evolution.
It is correct in the different faiths of scientists, and it is correct in the overall philosophy of naturalism - both with and without supernatural inclusions to varying degrees.
But evolution just says how life happens. No whys.
When creationists say "evolutionism" what they really mean is "naturalism" - and usually metaphysical naturalism:
quote:
Metaphysical naturalism is any worldview in which the world is amenable to a unified study that includes the natural sciences and in this sense the world is a unity. According to such a view, nature is all there is, and all things supernatural (which stipulatively includes spirits and souls, non-natural values, and universals as they are commonly conceived) do not exist.
(Wikipedia 2007}
Which is essentially atheism. By contrast scientists in general would use methodological naturalism:
quote:
Many modern philosophers of science[1][2] use the terms methodological naturalism or scientific naturalism to refer to the long standing convention in science of the scientific method, which makes the methodological assumption that observable effects in nature are best explainable only by natural causes, without reference to, or an assumption of, the existence or non-existence of supernatural notions.
(Wikipedia 2007}
Which is essentially agnostic and would not interfere with belief in the supernatural. These philosophies have been around a lot longer than Darwin's theory of evolution too.
When I look up the definition of "evolutionism" (which gives me a spell-check error) I get
quote:
ev·o·lu·tion·ism n.
1. A theory of biological evolution, especially that formulated by Charles Darwin.
2. Advocacy of or belief in biological evolution.
(American Heritage Dictionary 2007}
Not a philosophy based on evolution or an ideology.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : credit
Edited by RAZD, : clarity

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Buzsaw, posted 12-23-2007 10:50 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Buzsaw, posted 12-24-2007 10:34 AM RAZD has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1513 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 50 of 107 (443505)
12-25-2007 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Buzsaw
12-25-2007 10:28 AM


Re: Confusing mechanisms with causation
By the same token then autism is not a medical term as per your contention,
No that would be medicalism. There is no chemistryism, there is no physicism, there is no astronomyism.
Enjoy.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Buzsaw, posted 12-25-2007 10:28 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Buzsaw, posted 12-25-2007 11:13 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1513 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 52 of 107 (443714)
12-26-2007 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Buzsaw
12-25-2007 11:13 PM


sematicism? it's all a semanticist plot!
Nonsense. Autism is a medical term applying the adverb autistic or the noun autist. It all applies to the same condition.
But obviously NOT to the medical field, which is analogous to evolutionary biology.
Enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Buzsaw, posted 12-25-2007 11:13 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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