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Author | Topic: How can Biologists believe in the ToE? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ICANT Member (Idle past 343 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
I would like those who reject the ToE Before I answer I need to know what your definition of the Theory of Evolution is.
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ICANT Member (Idle past 343 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
nator writes:
What is Evolution? I am not sure why it is relevant to the questions in the OP.Copyright © 1993-1997 by Laurence Moran [Last Update: January 22, 1993] Most non-scientists seem to be quite confused about precise definitions of biological evolution. Such confusion is due in large part to the inability of scientists to communicate effectively to the general public and also to confusion among scientists themselves about how to define such an important term. When discussing evolution it is important to distinguish between the existence of evolution and various theories about the mechanism of evolution. And when referring to the existence of evolution it is important to have a clear definition in mind. What exactly do biologists mean when they say that they have observed evolution or that humans and chimps have evolved from a common ancestor? When I talk about the Theory of Evolution I begin with nothing. If you start somewhere else we have a problem. If you start after life is found on the earth then you have to take everything before the point you begin by FAITH so then your ToE would be faith based not on fact. Other than the fact we are here so we must have evolved. Since we are here it had to happen as we believe it happened. Sorry I don't buy into that theory. I just needed to know what you are talking about because you left out the line that followed the statement you make reference to.
ICANT writes:
I do not see how anyone can believe in the Theory of evolution. Hold on I did not say evolution, change over time is fact.quote:If I believe in evolution and so stated in the next sentence, why the above accusation. I believe that things change over time. It is a proven fact that formas over a period of at least 66 million years produced at least 330 different species of formas. But as of today they are still formas. So I do not believe that it can be proven that any one kind can become another kind. In fact the formas proved it does not happen. I believe that Biological Science has done many wonderful things in the past 150 years. I believe that Computer Science has done many wonderful things in the past 25 years. I believe that many of the other Sciences have made great advances. I know what I believe and why, you know what you believe and why. And they will never agree so lets leave it at that.
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ICANT Member (Idle past 343 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Chiroptera writes:
But they did exist.
This is stupid. I have no idea how my ancestors arrived in North America.nator writes:
That being the case: So, you are very much in error to lump Abiogenesis theories into the ToE.nator writes:
The various therories of Abiogenesisnator writes:
I don't have a problem with either of them, you do.
Well then your difficulty is with BiochemistryRAZD writes:
Since these sciences can only tell you they don't know you call it scientific uncertainty. Before the point where life originates the answer currently is "we don't know" -- that is not faith, it is uncertainty, scientific uncertainty.Can I have the same privilege because I can't show you God and just call it religious uncertainty. nator writes:
It does if life did not evolve from nothing.
Where the first life came from has no bearing on the ToE at all.nator writes:
It would if God made a full grown man and woman, full grown animals, birds and fishes.
God could have poofed the first life into existence and it would not change the ToE one iota.nator writes: What are "formas"?quote: nator writes:
Yes For example, is my housecat and a Bengal Tiger the same "kind"?Are homo Sapiens and Bonobo Chimpanzees the same "kind"? No
nator writes:
I plead guilty to ignorance of science. You believe what you do about science out of ignorance.It's a shame that you wish to remain ignorant. If I wanted to remain that way I would not put up with the snide posts, uncalled for sarcasm, and downright bigotry on this forum. I truly appreciate RAZD he has been helpful and pointed out many things in a civil way.But some are not here to learn or share knowledge just spout their particular beliefs and some in very arrogant ways. I still conclude:I take God on faith. Evolutionist take what you hope these sciences will prove at a future date on faith, what if they fail to ever give the answer and many have said they never will. I will quote RAZD on this one: RAZD writes: There is about a billion years from the formation of the earth and the first evidence of life noted above. Where did it come from is a question we don't know - and likely can't know - the answer to due to the problem of destruction of the evidence. What caused it is also anyone's guess at this point - we don't have any evidence of how if formed so it is not possible to define the causes (with evidence). ( Where do Creationists think the Theory of Evolution comes from? Msg 106) Edited by AdminAsgara, : fixed url
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ICANT Member (Idle past 343 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
NosyNed writes: but we do know that he didn't make any full grown modern animals. So this is simply wrong. Who said anything about modern animals, birds, fish, or man?
nator writes: If you are ignorant of science, then why haven't you been asking questions so you can become less ignorant? You want questions I got plenty.1. Where did the infinitely small nothing than the universe came out of come from and why? "We don't know" 2. Where did life come from and why? "We don"t know" I will take Razd's answer to these 2. 3. Did we have sharks 400 million years ago? 4. Did we have fish 72 feet long 150 million years ago? 5. Did we have an extinction event about 65 million years ago? 6. If so how much of life forms were left? 7. Is this where dinosaurs disappeared.? 8. How did all the elements that created our fossil fuels get together in the places they are in? 9. When did all these elements get together? 10. Back to life forms what were they after the extinction event? 11. When did the first hominids appear? 12. Did we have about 60 millions years to evolve from life forms left from extinction event? 13. If so how can that happen? 14. If a foraminiferan species made no changes in 500,000 years how fast did we speciate? 15. If in 66 million years the best foraminiferan could do was create 330 species, at that rate how could man appear from whatever it was left after the extinction event until we find modern man? 16. If we use the 500,000 years to get speciation then we would have 132 speciations, Is that correct? 17. If we use the fastest the foraminiferan ever speciated 200,000 years then we would have 330 speciation events, am I correct? 18. Would somebody explain how man could have evolved from whatever it was after the extinction event into modern man in only 66 million years? 330 speciations 19. How can I be expected to believe that this happened? Especially since the foraminiferan are still foraminiferan after 66 million years, and the sharks are still sharks after 400 million years. RAZD writes:
The debate in not over evolution, but common ancestrynator writes:
I thought this thread was caused by the above statement I made.
In another thread, ICANT wrote the following:quote: I do not see how anyone can believe in the Theory of evolution.
20. If God ploofed all down fully grown how could there be common ancestry? That's a start but I got a lot more questions?
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ICANT Member (Idle past 343 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Are you going to define "kind", or not? You already told me I was not qualified to define kind or anything else that would be involved in science. You said if I wanted to learn ask questions. I did ask a few. All of these questions pretain to why I don't see how anyone can believe in the ToE.
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ICANT Member (Idle past 343 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
8. How did all the elements that created our fossil fuels get together in the places they are in? 8. not a question that the ToE will give you an answer too, go talk to the geology people. I will accept that for right now but will add it back for more explanation with one of my tougher questions.
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ICANT Member (Idle past 343 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Hi nator,
I did not forget about your question. I just did not have time to research it as You said I was not qualified to define kind. nator writes: "Kind" is not a scientific term. It is one that is used only by Creationists. If there actually was a definition, you would have provided it by now. There is no definion. Careful with absolutes like there is no definion, if you meant definition. Funk & Wagnalls Standard Desk Dictionary (1975)
kind n. 1. A class or grouping; type. 2. The distinguishing character of something: They differ in kind. I take that to mean that humans are a kind, dogs are a kind, cats are a kind, rats are a kind, birds are a kind, fish are a kind, monkeys are a kind, baboons are a kind, apes are a kind horses are a kind, cows are a kind, hogs are a kind, snakes are a kind, etc. Enjoy, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member (Idle past 343 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
msg1 writes: In another thread, ICANT wrote the following: quote:I do not see how anyone can believe in the Theory of of evolution. Modulous writes: Nobody believes in the ToE Thanks Modulous, I believe this and the following statement you made.
Modulous writes: scientists believe that it is the most complete and consistent scientific theoryto explain how populations change over generations. My bold and underline. I believe that it is a theory but not the only theory.I believe in the theory that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, as I have stated in other threads. Modulous writes: As I said earlier, that populations change is not under dispute from most creationists. That the mechanisms can account for most of that change is not usually in dispute from creationists (though it is by IDists - it's their sole argument in fact), the only real issue is how much change has occurred? As I understand it there has been much change that has taken place within kinds. This is a proven fact. It is not a proven fact that one kind became another kind.It is not a proven fact where the universe came from. It is not a proven fact where life came from. Therefore I conclude my theory is the correct theory. "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member (Idle past 343 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
I think it was pretty clear that what was meant was a scientific definition for 'Kind' nator demanded a definition from me of kind, and then proceeded to tell me I was not qualified to give a definition. Therefore I had to look up and find one, which I did. I can't help it if you don't agree with it. Why would science have a definition for kind? "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member (Idle past 343 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
You are currently operating on a system like that my two-year-old grandson uses: "Fishy!" "Horsy!" Sounds like your grandson is a very smart child.
Suggesting that hummingbirds and ostriches can interbreed? Are you proposing that Great Dane's and Chihuahua's are not the same kind because they cannot interbreed. "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member (Idle past 343 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
So, basically you agree with me that you accept the ToE, No I do not believe in the theory of evolution. Being brought up on a farm I believe in evolution. Example: I believe you can take some piney woods rooters (wild hogs) and using selective breeding and cross breeding and come up with some amazing hogs. You start out with small hogs around 150 lbs and can wind up with hogs that weight 600 to 900 lbs.(Largest known was a Poland-China hog named Big Bill, who weighed 2,552 lbs.) I believe that many changes have occured in animals, plants, fish, fowl, and humans. But these things happened it is not a theory. "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member (Idle past 343 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
Your uncanny ability to make a fool of yourself never ceases to amaze me. Thanks for that great insite. "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member (Idle past 343 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: |
I should be the one thanking you for the free entertainment. You are welcome. "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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