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Author Topic:   The Impossibility Of The Flood
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 100 (561117)
05-18-2010 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Dr Adequate
05-18-2010 12:02 AM


Re: Application Of Natural Events
Dr Adequate writes:
Here we have dear old dotty old Buzsaw attributing Noah's Flood to the meteor strike which in reality we associate with the KT boundary.
Now apart from everything else that's wrong with that, here we have another case of what this thread is about. He's looking for a naturalistic explanation for something that the Bible just attributes to the will of God.
When it comes to explaining some real thing, such as the diversity of species, then creationists are quite happy to attribute it to God doing magic. But when it comes to an imaginary thing that didn't happen, such as the Flood, they go looking for materialistic explanations to shore it up.
Dr Adequate, According to the Biblical record, often God effects his purposes via what we regard as natural events. When he wanted to punish Israel, his nation for idolitry etc, he didn't usually zap them directly himself. He raised up enemy nations for that specific purpose on occasion. Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon was an example Syria and Egypt were others.
Germany was a "natural" agent in effecting the return of Israel to their homeland in order to fulfill the end time prophecies of the prophecied messianic kingdom in Israel.
As for the flood, the natural effect of a meteor hit the magnitude of the K T event strike would (naturally) cool the atmosphere. We know there was this meteor event at some time. You can fault me for my reasons of rejecting the dating of the event but you can't fault me for applying the event to triggering an alleged flood by an alleged condensing of an alleged warm vapor canopy.
What I'm saying is that you can call the canopy and the flood a myth, but you can't deny that such a meteor strike would not naturally cause the warm vapor to condense and rain to earth.
According to the Biblical record which depicts a flood and warmer climate, God is an intelligent designer being who brings famine, rain, tornadoes, earthquakes, and all sorts of natural disasters to effect his purposes and manage the planet. Again you can call it all myth, but you can't separate what you call nature from him if he exists as the majority of people believe he does.
We ID creationists must apply the same observed events, fossil record, historical record, etc to argue for our premises and theses that evolutionists apply to theirs, though our methodologies in application and interpretation may differ from theirs.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-18-2010 12:02 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-18-2010 11:51 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 64 by Coyote, posted 05-18-2010 11:52 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 66 by subbie, posted 05-19-2010 12:51 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 70 by PaulK, posted 05-19-2010 2:37 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 100 (561185)
05-19-2010 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Coyote
05-18-2010 11:52 PM


Re: Application Of Natural Events
Coyote writes:
You are off by about 63 million years. Yes, that is something we can fault you for.
You are cherry picking from billions of years, looking for events that you can attribute to this flood.
But your story doesn't form a consistent whole. You have to ignore too much data, and manipulate too many events in your efforts to support the flood story.
The "minor" problem of a 63 million year difference in dating is one example.
Sorry, it just doesn't fly.
An event the magnitude of a ww flood triggered by an event the magnitude of such a meteor strike atributed to the K T event implies a major sudden change in the makeup of the planet and it's atmoshere, not calculated by dating methodology.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Coyote, posted 05-18-2010 11:52 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by DrJones*, posted 05-19-2010 10:19 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 79 by Coragyps, posted 05-19-2010 11:33 AM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 75 of 100 (561192)
05-19-2010 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by subbie
05-19-2010 12:51 AM


Re: Application Of Natural Events
subbie writes:
What kind of a sick fuck does it take to not only believe is such an asshole but to actually worship it? Buz, you are lower than vermin vomit.
You haven't a clue regarding Jehovah, god of a ww flood who wiped out the world's population and who establishes ultimate justice upon earth, Subbie. Yah, he's a god of love, but as well a god of justice and wrath upon evil.
No sane person would deny the presence of evil upon earth. It's an observed phenomena and evidence of what to you?
It behooves Jehovah, the god of the universe, if he be true, who established certain laws for his earth creatures, to do what's best suits his purposes for the ultimate good of both planet earth and the universe at large, factoring in the freedom of choice of creatures like Satan and the rebellious angels which oppose the kingdom of Jehovah on earth.
It was the forces of evil which first deceived mankind in the garden and deceived the people who ultimately caused Jehovah to wipe out the world's population in the flood and to allow Satan's agent, Hitler, to effect the restoration of his nation for the prophesied coming messianic kingdom on earth which will extablish final millenial peace upon the planet.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by subbie, posted 05-19-2010 12:51 AM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by subbie, posted 05-19-2010 11:13 AM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 76 of 100 (561194)
05-19-2010 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by DrJones*
05-19-2010 10:19 AM


Re: Application Of Natural Events
Dr Jones writes:
How do a meteor strike and a flood affect the various dating methods such that they are all wrong and yet still agree with each other? Show your math
Math, shmath, Jones. It's a matter of whether the flood happened and the properties of a pre-flood planet.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by DrJones*, posted 05-19-2010 10:19 AM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Huntard, posted 05-19-2010 10:53 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 88 by DrJones*, posted 05-19-2010 1:10 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 100 (561207)
05-19-2010 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Huntard
05-19-2010 10:53 AM


Re: Application Of Natural Events
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Huntard writes:
So, you've got nothing? Thought not.
Says Mr. Blind Assertion.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Huntard, posted 05-19-2010 10:53 AM Huntard has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by PaulK, posted 05-19-2010 12:28 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 100 (561212)
05-19-2010 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Coragyps
05-19-2010 11:33 AM


Re: Application Of Natural Events
Coragyps writes:
Nor observed in the geological/biological record. It was of SUCH HUGE MAGNITUDE that it left no trace of its happening.
Correct?
No. Not correct. All that is there is debatable and remains the ongoing debate in the science arena, according to premise and thesis of interpretation of the geological/biological data observed. Both camps apply the same data in determinations.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Coragyps, posted 05-19-2010 11:33 AM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Woodsy, posted 05-19-2010 12:40 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 84 by Coyote, posted 05-19-2010 12:44 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 86 by Taq, posted 05-19-2010 1:00 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 90 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-19-2010 6:34 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 93 of 100 (561332)
05-20-2010 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Dr Adequate
05-19-2010 6:34 PM


Re: Application Of Data
Dr Adequate writes:
Buzsaw writes:
No. Not correct. All that is there is debatable and remains the ongoing debate in the science arena, according to premise and thesis of interpretation of the geological/biological data observed. Both camps apply the same data in determinations.
Don't be silly.
If you think the above is silly you need to show why you think it's silly. Otherwise you're blindly asserting that it's silly.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-19-2010 6:34 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 100 (561343)
05-20-2010 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Taq
05-19-2010 1:00 PM


Re: Application Of Natural Events
Taq writes:
Let's approach this from a different angle. What type of geologic feature could the flood NOT produce? Can you describe a single one?
1) It would not produce a climate as warm as pre-flood.
2) It would not produce the same atmosphere, given the volumn of water to accomodate a flood of this magnitude.
3) It would not produce the same elements in the atmosphere of a pre-flood planet which is implicatied due to the volumn of H2O in play
4) It would not produce the same sun rays on the planet as post flood.
5) It would not produce relative uniformity in calculating dating methodology nor would it produce acurate dating data of present dating methodology used.
6) It would not produce similar weather as pre-flood.
7) It would not produce a rainbow-less atmosphere.
8) It would not produce as long a life as that of a warmer uniform atmosphere which filtered out less healthy sun rays.
9) It would not produce as level a planet surface as pre-flood.
10) It would not produce small shallower oceans as would be pre-flood.
11) It would not produce warm polar regions void of ice.
12) It would not produce large continents compared to pre-flood.
13) It would not produce nearly (by far) as little carbon on the planet and it's atmosphere, due to volcanic eruptions, etc.
14. It would not produce the same sub-terrain as pre-flood.
These are a few examples of what it would not produce. Taq. Thanks for asking. I see you got a well deserved fiver for that.
Edited by Buzsaw, : change wording

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Taq, posted 05-19-2010 1:00 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by DrJones*, posted 05-20-2010 1:05 AM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 97 of 100 (561346)
05-20-2010 1:02 AM


contents deleted by Buzsaw
Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 99 of 100 (561350)
05-20-2010 1:18 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by DrJones*
05-20-2010 1:05 AM


Re: Application Of Natural Events
DrJones writes:
How would the flood cause all the dating methods to be wrong and yet still agree with eachother? show your math
Doc, all methods assume a relative uniform planet. I would assume that perhaps all forms would be skewed, though I'm not able to confirm.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by DrJones*, posted 05-20-2010 1:05 AM DrJones* has not replied

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