Bible Cryptids/Dinosaurs?

The fire-breathing ought to be your first clue.(Forget about bombardier beetles. A big animal has no use for a chemical "defense mechanism" - he can crush his enemy like a bug.)

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When figurative language is used, how do you tell if it is referring to an actual beast or a myth? Sounds pretty far-fetched. If I was describing a hiss, I'd probably call it a "hiss".On the other hand, if I was trying to make up a really scary myth, I might talk about fire-breathing. It's more likely that the whole @#$% thing is figurative - bits and pieces of real animals frankensteined together to make up a mythological beast.

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Maybe I'll get an answer if I ask again: How do you decide what is figurative and what is not? If the fire-breathing is figurative, why must every other feature be shoehorned into a real animal?Look what God said to Job: Can you catch him like a fish? Can you harpoon him like a whale? Can you harness him like an ox?It's clearly a series of comparisons to known powerful beasts.

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Maybe the third time's the charm: How do you tell what's figurative and what's not?You've given a lot of examples of figurative language in Job. Now give us an example of what is not figurative in the description of Leviathan.Then tell us how you decided that one item is figurative and the other is not.Then tell us why you decided that Job 41 is a figurative description of a non-figurative beast.

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Where has that been shown?

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Exactly. Now where's the part that isn't figurative?

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No. I am asking you specifically why you think Leviathan was a real animal. I am asking you why you think it's a historical narrative when so much of it is fanciful. All you've done so far is assert that it is. Why do you think it is? Never mind "it's easy to tell". How do you tell? Stop hinting. Come right out and say something. That's just the point: the author didn't describe "the croc's hiss" - he described fire. Most of the description of Leviathan does not fit a crocodile.I don't need you to lecture me on figures of speech.I am trying to get you to tell us why you think the Leviathan in Job was a literal animal. What difference would it make to the story if it was a real animal?

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Where there's smoke there's fire:

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Job 41:19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
Job 41:20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
Job 41:21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.

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Why do you dwell on the smoke and conveniently ignore the rest of the description? Your crocodile is just not plausible.I'm still trying to get at how you cherry-pick what is literal. So far, it seems that you pick whatever fits your chosen crocodile and handwave the rest away.So far, it seems that your only answer is, "My professor said so." Is that your final answer?

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Yes, and scales are little sheilds - it is a direct one-to-one comparison. Comparing "fire" and "sparks" to "hot breath" is not the same kind of comparison at all. So figurative language can be used to describe literal animals. Does that mean that all figurative language describes literal animals? As far as I know, arachnophilia and crashfrog would both agree that Leviathan is a mythical beast. I only quoted Job to show the parts that you left out.I'm not trying to "prove" anything. I'm only trying to get you to explain how you decide what is figurative and what is not. I'm still not seeing anything but "this bit is figurative and that bit isn't".

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What I am asking you (again) is: How do you decide something is NOT a metaphor, etc.?I don't care how many references you post to figurative language, past, present or future. That is not the issue. We all agree that figurative language exists.I'm asking: how do you, LudoRephaim, decide what is figurative and what is not? Since the rest of us seem to agree that Leviathan was mythical, I want to know why you disagree. Why do you think crashfrog's interpretation and arachnophilia's interpretation and my interpretation are wrong and yours is right?Until you can show why your interpretation is better, you have not "shown that the 'Leviathan' of Job 41 is not mythical".

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Then the obvious question is: what does a metaphor LOOK like?
How many metaphors do you have to add up before the whole animal becomes metaphoric? That's exactly the point: since the description of Leviathan is not that of a "well-known" animal, why insist that it is one? Since it is described only in figurative terms, why insist that it is not figurative? The OP says:

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I was just wondering what other people's interpretations were about the Cryptids mentiioned in the Bible?

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That's what you're getting. If you're only interested in Leviathan's shoe size, you're likely to be disappointed.Make no mistake - this is a debate board. I'm just trying to help you get your point across more clearly.

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No no no no wait wait wait wait. Nobody said the fire-breathing is literal.It's because anybody can see that the fire-breathing is figurative that we believe the whole animal is figuarative. See, the problem is that you're ignoring the whole point of the story.God says to Job, "Look at the Leviathan. You can't catch him with a fish hook or a spear. You can't harness him. You can't control him in any way, and how much more powerful than that is God? Who are you to question God?"Now, if Leviathan was a croc, Job's reaction would have been, "Give me enough guys and enough weapons and I'll turn your croc into shoes and purses."It only takes three guys with spears and ropes to kill a croc. If Leviathan was a croc it would make the whole story a joke. Nope. Doesn't work at all. It's possible that crocodile sightings gave people ideas for the figuarative language used to describe Leviathan. But it can not be a literal crocodile - they're not near powerful enough.It can not be any literal animal because God tells Job that men can not kill it.

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Hmmm.... Here's me thinking that a non-literal beast can not breathe literal fire. I'm not suggesting that there's a metaphor "on top of the figurative language". I'm saying that if Leviathan is not literal, then the description of him is automatically not literal, regardless of how literal the language used to describe him. I was keeping this Derringer in my boot (figuratively ), but I'll bring it out now, in case Ludo doesn't take the Leviathan-hook:

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Job 41:33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.

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It sounds like there is only one Leviathan - no Mrs. Leviathan, no Leviathan Jr. (heir to the throne), no baby Leviathans, no Leviathan eggs....Literal animals are populations, not unique individuals. (I noticed that one of Ludo's references goes on about the Loch Ness monster. One of the criticisms of that legend is that Loch Ness is not big enough to sustain a population of such large creatures.)So, "On earth there is not his like" strongly suggests a non-literal Leviathan, more of a Godzilla than a literal dinosaur. The Book of Job is the first Japanese monster movie.

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Since you lova da references so much, here's a picture or two of African crocodile hunters.Tell those guys it can't be done.

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This is about as much as I could find about how a croc might be killed with spears. Well, apparently they do wade in the water and use small boats. Do you think they put up a sign to keep the big ones away? Again, do you suppose the young and the females frequent a different lake? Who said they had to pierce the back? As long as they can kill it, it ain't much of a "leviathan". Have a Google around the Internet. Apparently, it's pretty common for "primitive" peoples in crocodile-infested territory to kill them with primitive "stone age" weapons. Did God rule out getting help? The story doesn't seem very impressive if Levathan is only more powerful than a sick old man. I think it implies pretty clearly that Job could not kill Leviathan with all of the resources at his disposal. Once again, the power of Leviathan would be meaningless if God set up a bunch of rules about how many men Job could have on his team. The implication seems to be that all men put together are not as powerful as God. No matter how many men Job could muster, he couldn't do what God can do. No. I said that the Bible says specifically that there is only one Leviathan:

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Job 41:33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.

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No. I said that Leviathan was mythical, not supernatural.

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