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Author Topic:   Homeopathy
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 106 of 142 (456423)
02-17-2008 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Rrhain
02-17-2008 10:38 PM


Re: apologies
And you haven't answered the question: If water has a "memory" of what was dissolved in it previously, then there is no possible way for homeopathy to work because the water would be overwhelmed with the "energy" of everything that had ever been dissolved in it. It is a self-refuting system. The very process by which they claim it works destroys any possibility of it ever working.
this idea appears to me to be giving water more power than it has in the natural order. its a guess i suppose, but a very far stretch.
But there isn't anything in there but water.
So if it isn't the water, then the conclusion is as what we see:
Nothing is happening. No biological effect is seen.
maybe they are just benefiting from the water in their diet, and tap water would do the same thing if consumed instead. or they just claim it helps because it eases their minds that they are doing something instead of nothing. i'll make no other claims.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Rrhain, posted 02-17-2008 10:38 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Rrhain, posted 02-17-2008 10:56 PM tesla has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 107 of 142 (456424)
02-17-2008 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by tesla
02-17-2008 10:48 PM


Re: apologies
tesla responds to me:
quote:
maybe they are just benefiting from the water in their diet
But that's accounted for, too. The control is not just comparing a homeopathic remedy to a standard treatment. The control is to compare homeopathy to plain water as well as to doing nothing. And we find that homeopathy does nothing more than taking plain water.
And note, the dosage of a homeopathic remedy is on the order of milliliters. This has no biological effect upon a healthy body.
quote:
or they just claim it helps because it eases their minds that they are doing something instead of nothing.
But since it doesn't do anything, how can they possibly get better in reality? I'm all for the psychological part of healing. Making someone calm and confident goes a long way in having a successful treatment if only to ensure that the treatment regimen is carried out fully. But if all you have is psychology, you don't have any actual treatment taking place.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by tesla, posted 02-17-2008 10:48 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by tesla, posted 02-17-2008 11:03 PM Rrhain has not replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 108 of 142 (456426)
02-17-2008 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Rrhain
02-17-2008 10:56 PM


Re: apologies
But since it doesn't do anything, how can they possibly get better in reality? I'm all for the psychological part of healing. Making someone calm and confident goes a long way in having a successful treatment if only to ensure that the treatment regimen is carried out fully. But if all you have is psychology, you don't have any actual treatment taking place.
human outlook has a lot to do with healing. stress and worry will make a person sick.
other than that, i agree with you, that there's some other reason for healing (like your visiting a temple with hurt hip analogy)
i don't see what to debate, we apparently agree for the most part, accept on the psychology.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Rrhain, posted 02-17-2008 10:56 PM Rrhain has not replied

  
Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3443 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 109 of 142 (456438)
02-18-2008 3:37 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Rrhain
02-16-2008 7:17 PM


Re: apologies
Hi all,
quote:
Do you know what Avogadro's number is? It is the number of molecules of a substance required to have the same number in grams as its atomic weight. That is, since molecular oxygen has a molecular weight of about 16. Then if you have 16 grams of molecular oxygen, you know that you have Avogadro's number-worth of oxygen molecules.
It is about 6.022e23.
Now, if you do a dilution of 10-30, how many molecules do you think are going to be left if you only started with 1023 of them to begin with?
Pardon me Rrhain,
your analysis is good - but it assumes one starts with exactly one mole of water, which may not be accurate. Don't they start with a liter or some larger amount?
Anyway -
The break even for 1 molecule would be about 10^7 moles of water wouldn't it? That's about 180 tonnes of water?
Is that about right?
180 tonnes of water at X30 dilution would have about 1 molecule of active ingredient left?
Iasion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Rrhain, posted 02-16-2008 7:17 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Rrhain, posted 02-18-2008 5:29 AM Kapyong has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 110 of 142 (456449)
02-18-2008 5:29 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Kapyong
02-18-2008 3:37 AM


Re: apologies
Iasion responds to me:
quote:
your analysis is good - but it assumes one starts with exactly one mole of water, which may not be accurate. Don't they start with a liter or some larger amount?
Well, do the math. It doesn't matter how much solvent we have. It only matters how much solute. Suppose we have absolutely no solvent. If we start with a mole and do a thirty-times dilution of taking tenths, we run out of molecules at the 23rd dilution. It doesn't matter how much solvent we dissolve the solute in because we're taking a tenth of everything available. If the mixture is well-mixed, then taking a tenth of a mole of sugar dissolved in a liter of water gives us the same number of sugar molecules transferred as if we dissolved it in a kiloliter of water.
What dissolving in water does is reduce the chances of you actually getting a molecule in solution at the end. In physical mixtures, things are not perfectly distributed. They clump. Thus, when you take a tenth of a solution, you stand a very good chance of taking fewer molecules of solute than if you had taken a tenth of pure solute due to the fact that the molecules aren't perfectly distributed.
The odds get worse the more dilute the solution. Suppose there are only two molecules in the solution. If you take a tenth of the solution, do you really think there's a good chance of getting even one molecule?
So in order to get a single molecule of the substance left in a homeopathic remedy, you'd need on the order of beyond 10,000,000 moles. If you were using sugar, you'd need to start with nearly 8 million cups of sugar (about 4 million pounds) in order to get one molecule left after the dilution.
The only way homeopathy can work is if we conclude that taking something away makes it more abundant.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Kapyong, posted 02-18-2008 3:37 AM Kapyong has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Kapyong, posted 03-14-2008 11:20 PM Rrhain has not replied

  
Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3443 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 111 of 142 (460427)
03-14-2008 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Rrhain
02-18-2008 5:29 AM


Re: apologies
Doh,
silly me - solute/solvent...
Ok,
so if we took 1800 tons of sugar,
disolved it in 18000 tons of water
(assuming roughly 10 to 1 water-to-sugar)
then did a X30 dilution,
we would end up with 18000 tons of water with ONE sugar molecule in it (I still seem to have slipped a decimal place somewhere - oh well.)
Anyway -
you didn't, like, think I was actually supporting this nonsense did you?
I was just trying to get a rough idea of just HOW stupid it all is :-)
Iasion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Rrhain, posted 02-18-2008 5:29 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 112 of 142 (460462)
03-15-2008 9:18 AM


Water Memory
`I always thought the basis of homeopathy was memory stuctures that are multiplied from a previous stucture diluted out of the dilution thus affect the body by its ability to recogonize a copy of the original stucture that is no longer present, etc...
P.S. The nano-crystal water memory structures that homeopathy people multiply by diluting out the original stucture. Its interesting that water and nanoelectonics is needed to create ultra dense memory storage devices.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Water and Nanoelectronics Will Mix to Create Ultra-Dense Memory Storage Devices, Researchers Say
April 26, 2006
"We are particularly excited that water is the key ingredient in making these wires 'remember' their state."
Page not found | University of Pennsylvania
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Percy, posted 03-15-2008 9:37 AM johnfolton has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 113 of 142 (460465)
03-15-2008 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by johnfolton
03-15-2008 9:18 AM


Re: Water Memory
whatever writes:
Water and Nanoelectronics Will Mix to Create Ultra-Dense Memory Storage Devices, Researchers Say
April 26, 2006
"We are particularly excited that water is the key ingredient in making these wires 'remember' their state."
Page not found | University of Pennsylvania
Even more exciting is what they say about the future of storage technology:
Though a scheme for the dense arrangement and addressing of these nanowires remains to be developed, such an approach would enable a storage density of more than 100,000 terabits per cubic centimeter. If this memory density can be realized commercially, a device the size of an iPod nano could hold enough MP3 music to play for 300,000 years without repeating a song or enough DVD quality video to play movies for 10,000 years without repetition.
Imagine being able to fill your iPod with tap water every morning to fill it with every song and movie ever recorded throughout time! But it goes beyond that! All we'll have to do is connect our computers up to the household plumbing to give them nearly infinite storage capacity! And the Internet will no longer require undersea cables to cross the ocean, the servers will just dump water into the ocean on one side of pond and servers on the other side will just suck the information up.
But the possibilities go far beyond electronic technology. Since water has been around forever it has been in contact with everything throughout the planet throughout all time and then diluted and mixed in the oceans. All the information about all of history and pre-history and all of geological time is just waiting there in the oceans for us to siphon it out.
And there's still the medical possibilities. Homeopathy hasn't even begun to explore what water can do. The same ordinary water found everywhere has also been in contact with every imaginable chemical over time, and so every drop of water anywhere is a cure for anything!
A new age dawns!
Oh, wait a minute, the article was talking about water's ability to give a wire the ability to remember it's state, not about water's ability to remember a state.
Never mind.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by johnfolton, posted 03-15-2008 9:18 AM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by johnfolton, posted 03-15-2008 9:49 PM Percy has replied

  
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 114 of 142 (460519)
03-15-2008 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Percy
03-15-2008 9:37 AM


Re: Water Memory
Homeopathy hasn't even begun to explore what water can do. The same ordinary water found everywhere has also been in contact with every imaginable chemical over time, and so every drop of water anywhere is a cure for anything!
I'm not sure I agree that all waters are equal in respect to healing due to these nano-minerals part in water memory stuctures of the waters your drinking. The cell water in the body according to alternative holistic folk are quite stuctured so energied water would be better than de-energied waters. I'm leaning if water is energied with a memory of cyanide, arsenic without any cyanide or arsenic actually present would be better for the health of the individual than waters that have no water memory and exist is a state of low energy in respect to the body need to have to use energy to restructure the water so it can overcome the celluar lipid membrane of the cell.
That while the waters people are drinking may not all be equal that too me is a bit different from multiplying a particular frequency structure as the homeopathy folk are doing so that the body would react to a particular frequency.
The holistic people not necessarily the homeopathy people believe nano mineral water stuctures in water help the cells ability to take in water (in and out of the cell)primes the celluar pump by reducing surface tension to help the celluar wastes leaving the cell due to these nano mineral water structures in water. (No mineral water structures) makes it harder for water to cross into the cell so the waters in the cell have a harder time leaving the cell, this stewing of old celluar wastes believed by some holistic alternative folk responsible for nipping at the teleromes ends of the DNA in the cell all helping to the accelerating of aging, etc...
Its believed when water goes over 70 degree's C or comes in contact with magnetic fields it tends to lose water memory? Not sure how that affects nano-mineral water structures that are not based totally on water stucture. I thought the word was mineral based nano water stuctures are pretty stable too like homeopathy remedies?
P.S. It just seems there is so much to homeopathy stuff not just the dilutions but that mineral nano-water memory stuctures like Huza Water that the alternative holistic folk like Dr. Patrick Flangan testified about the scientific reasonings and homeopathy folk talking about their water memory stuctures that they believe is also helping the body to achive homeostasis, health, seems a bit different from nano mineral structures that some of the alternative holistic folk are into, but its interesting that water seems to be cutting edge in future nano wire memory storage devices, etc...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This memory remains existing also despite perfect filter methods. Filtering or distilling drinking water can remove only pollutants from the water, but not the millions of frequencies therein, which affect biological systems.
Uncontaminated spring water purges and detoxicates the connective tissue, is multi-active, separates metabolic poisons, energizes metabolic processes and digesting.
http://www.ener-gie.com/gie_activator_-_water_memory.html
Page 93 7. Thresholds and Limits to Coherence talks about above 70 degrees C. or magnetic fields, etc... might lose medicinal value in liquid or lactose homeopathy water memory structures.
Water Memory Frequencies
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Admin, : Shorten link.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Percy, posted 03-15-2008 9:37 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Percy, posted 03-16-2008 8:31 AM johnfolton has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 115 of 142 (460531)
03-16-2008 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by johnfolton
03-15-2008 9:49 PM


Re: Water Memory
Sorry, Charley. That was sarcasm.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by johnfolton, posted 03-15-2008 9:49 PM johnfolton has not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 116 of 142 (476731)
07-26-2008 8:45 AM


Why Homoeopathy is Bunk
Buzsaw has been plugging homoeopathy in another thread, so I have decided to reply here, where it is on topic.
Buzsaw writes:
1. Homeopathic treatment is a very safe, cheap and effective means of treatment, often effecting relief in both acute and chronic ailments.
It has been effective when applied properly by trained practitioners in some chronic ailments which have been considered incurable by conventional medicine.
It is safe because there is nothing in it but water on a sugar pill. Homoeopathy is a placebo, that's all. The average homoeopathic remedy is diluted so many times that the remedies you buy have an amount of potentially active ingredient in them equivalent to one drop in all the worlds oceans. Think about that for a minute. Some remedies are actually more diluted, but it makes little difference, because by this point there is none of the original ingredient left in the bottle; it is just water. No wonder it is safe.
Of course what isn't safe is relying on homoeopathic snake oil in the face of serious illness. Those who recommend homoeopathy instead of anti-malarials, for instance, are dicing with peoples lives.
2. My hay fever pills which are the most effective that I've ever found are homeopathic. They are relatively cheap remedies which I found on my own in our local health food outlet.
As Rahvin has already pointed out Buz, you have no idea whether your improvement regarding hay fever is actually down to the pills. Perhaps it is related to outside forces, such as a change in local agriculture (I get hay fever some years and not others) or maybe your body has simply managed to fight it off independently. Your testimony, taken alone, is anecdotal and thus valueless as scientific evidence because you cannot rule out other causes.
The only way to determine with any kind of accuracy whether a treatment works or not is by means of a standardised, randomised, double blind, peer reviewed clinical trial, the gold standard of evidence based medicine. Anything else is just a waste of time.
3. Homeopathy works most effectively to strengthen and maintain a healthy immune system in the body holistically. It mimics the disease so as to stimulate the body's own immune system which in turn wards off the ailment. It is a simple scientific concept which makes logical sense as well.
It most certainly does not make logical sense. Remember the bit about dilution? What is logical about a treatment with no active ingredient, indeed, no ingredient other than water, having an effect on a pathogen? As for the bit about mimicking the disease, that sounds to me like your interpretation of the homoeopathic "like cures like"principle, a concept that has more i common with medieval witch craft than modern science. If, on the other hand, your "mimic" explanation is true, we should be able to test for it quite simply, by giving a homoeopathic treatment to someone who is not ill and doing a blood test on them before and after. If the homoeopathy works as you say it does, we should see antigens for the appropriate pathogen appearing in the patient's blood. Simple. Care to point me to such an experiment?
4. Children are agreeable to it since the medicine is usually administered as a sugary pill. Perhaps that's one reason why some mistakenly regard it as quack medicine.
5. Homeopathic medicines are easy to administer. Homeopathic medicines are usually dispensed as sweet sugar pills, which are very easy to take. Due to this reason, children readily agree to take homeopathic remedies.
You do realise that you made the same point twice don't you? Sugar pills are not the point. Many nasty tasting medicines are given in sugary pills. That is not the reason why doctors dismiss homoeopathy. Doctors dismiss homoeopathy because it has consistently failed to perform statistically significantly better than placebo in clinical trial. That means it doesn't work. Doctors are not so feeble minded as to dismiss a valuable cure because it comes in a sugary pill, when they themselves dispense hundreds of sugary pills every day.
6. Homeopathy, by enhancing the whole body's immune system, effects a more healthy body in general so as to eliminate the need to depend upon the $$$ medical establishment and to avoid some of their dangerous and $$$ practice.
This point is the biggest crock of shit in your whole post. Homoeopaths are the ones charging a fortune for sugar pills, whereas in the UK, I can get my medication for nothing. Doctors don't benefit from the profit margins of pharmaceutical companies, at least not in my neck of the woods. They get paid the same whether they prescribe drug a, drug b or no drugs at all. Homoeopaths on the other hand, rely on sales of their snake oil to make a living. So who is more deserving of those dollar signs?
7. Being holistic, it does not require the need for multiple specialists in the various segments of health care.
Ah yes, "holistic" the new-age quacks favourite mantra. Holistic means bugger all. Either a treatment works or it does not. The only way to study this is by clinical trial. Homoeopathy fails at clinical trail, so it's apologists must come up with some means of hand waving this away. Claiming that homoeopathy is holistic is one way in which homoeopaths attempt to dodge this failure. How holistic exactly is a treatment that cannot even treat the single ailment that it was intended to treat, let alone anything else?
By contrast, when a little lump appeared on my neck recently (don't panic, it's benign) it led to a series of blood tests that measured pretty much everything that it is possible to test blood for, from sugar levels to lymphatics and in the process picked up on a few things that otherwise might have gone unnoticed. That sounds pretty holistic to me, but doctors do not feel the need to shout about this; it is simply common practise.
I'm sure that if Michael Savage were to grace us with his expertise on this he would be able to cite much more as to why the science on this is valid.
Again, Michael Savage is a very intelligent fellow indeed. One can widen their knowledge and understanding by listening to him on a number of topics.
Your faith in Mr Savage is touching, but neither he nor anyone else has ever provided a fully fledged clinical trial that backs up homoeopathy's claims. Unless he or you can do that, you're wasting your time. Proper clinical trials are the gold standard of medicine, indeed the only standard. Homoeopathy fails at clinical trial. Thus, we conclude that homoeopathy is bunk. End of story.

Mutate and Survive

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Buzsaw, posted 07-26-2008 3:38 PM Granny Magda has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 117 of 142 (476736)
07-26-2008 9:58 AM


Cut 'n' Pasted to here, since Granny is right...
It appears that you and some others here do not understand the science of homeopathy or how homeopatic methodology works.
It appears that you don't understand the function of a placebo.
Homeopathy consists of diluting a medication tot he point where there is no longer a detectable amount of the active ingredient.
If such a thing worked, then every time you drink a glass of water you should also give you the effects of any and all substances ever dissolved in it.
1. Homeopathic treatment is a very safe, cheap and effective means of treatment, often effecting relief in both acute and chronic ailments.
It has been effective when applied properly by trained practitioners in some chronic ailments which have been considered incurable by conventional medicine.
Placebo. Demonstrate a reputable, peer-reviewed study in which homeopathic "medicine" was shown to have a significantly different effect than a sugar pill.
It's no wonder it's safe and cheap - it is in most cases nothing more than a sugar pill.
2. My hay fever pills which are the most effective that I've ever found are homeopathic. They are relatively cheap remedies which I found on my own in our local health food outlet.
Your personal experiences amount to nothing, Buz. The result could be placebo, changing weather conditions, or any number of other factors even up to your own subjective inaccuracy in being able to tell the difference.
3. Homeopathy works most effectively to strengthen and maintain a healthy immune system in the body holistically. It mimics the disease so as to stimulate the body's own immune system which in turn wards off the ailment. It is a simple scientific concept which makes logical sense as well.
Bullshit. It's diluted to the point where, if you had the volume of the Atlantic ocean in medication, the active ingredient would amount to a scant few drops. It's completely undetectable, and in most cases the chances of you actually ingesting even a single molecule of the "active ingredient" in a given pill are astronomically small.
4. Children are agreeable to it since the medicine is usually administered as a sugary pill. Perhaps that's one reason why some mistakenly regard it as quack medicine.
5. Homeopathic medicines are easy to administer. Homeopathic medicines are usually dispensed as sweet sugar pills, which are very easy to take. Due to this reason, children readily agree to take homeopathic remedies.
That's because they are sugar pills! Sugar pills, with no detectable active ingredient.
6. Homeopathy, by enhancing the whole body's immune system, effects a more healthy body in general so as to eliminate the need to depend upon the $$$ medical establishment and to avoid some of their dangerous and $$$ practice.
7. Being holistic, it does not require the need for multiple specialists in the various segments of health care.
That's right, the doctors who spend their lives learning and practicing tried-and-tested techniques of medicine under controlled and objectively verifiable circumstances are just out to get your money. The newagey college dropout hippy down the street selling snake oil obviously knows better than any silly doctor! Why pay more when they'll remove your appendix?! Save money and take a sugar pill for your appendicitis!
I'm sure that if Michael Savage were to grace us with his expertise on this he would be able to cite much more as to why the science on this is valid.
Again, Michael Savage is a very intelligent fellow indeed. One can widen their knowledge and understanding by listening to him on a number of topics.
Michael Savage is a radio talk-show host. In this case he is making comments regarding psychiatry, not nutrition. You notice how he says "in my opinion" whenever he says bullshit like this? That's because he knows that it's bullshit. You take what he says as gospel truth becasue he agrees with your other twisted and ignorant views and because he has a PhD. But Savage does not have a PhD in child psychology, and is completely unqualified to make the statements he made.
Anyone who believes in homeopathy is an idiot. You're taking sugar pills, Buz, nothing more. It is objectively demonstrable to be nothing more than lies and flim-flam. And frankly I wish Savage could have his PhD revoked if he genuinely supports homeopathy, which consists of nothing more than a bunch of quack snake-oil salesmen making scads of money off of gullible little twits like you.

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Buzsaw, posted 07-26-2008 4:50 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 118 of 142 (476763)
07-26-2008 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Granny Magda
07-26-2008 8:45 AM


Re: Why Homoeopathy is Bunk
Granny Magda writes:
It is safe because there is nothing in it but water on a sugar pill. Homoeopathy is a placebo, that's all. The average homoeopathic remedy is diluted so many times that the remedies you buy have an amount of potentially active ingredient in them equivalent to one drop in all the worlds oceans. Think about that for a minute. Some remedies are actually more diluted, but it makes little difference, because by this point there is none of the original ingredient left in the bottle; it is just water. No wonder it is safe.
OK folks, let's pause right here and get serious. Where is your documentation for the above claim that HP medicines have the equivalent to one drop of medicine into all of the world's oceans, i.e. nothing but water and sugar?
You say "many times." Well, Granny, we know that many times all health care methodologies are abused, misused and fraudulent, so what about the other times when honesty, science, experiential expertise and integrity is applied to the homeopatic methodology?
Edited by Buzsaw, : replace period with question mark

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Granny Magda, posted 07-26-2008 8:45 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Asgara, posted 07-26-2008 4:13 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 120 by molbiogirl, posted 07-26-2008 4:29 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 123 by Granny Magda, posted 07-26-2008 7:55 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 119 of 142 (476765)
07-26-2008 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Buzsaw
07-26-2008 3:38 PM


Re: Why Homoeopathy is Bunk
Where is your documentation for the above claim that HP medicines have the equivalent to one drop of medicine into all of the world's oceans, i.e. nothing but water and sugar?
If Granny is wrong on this count Buz, maybe you could explain what a 13C solution is, or 200C.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Buzsaw, posted 07-26-2008 3:38 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2642 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 120 of 142 (476766)
07-26-2008 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Buzsaw
07-26-2008 3:38 PM


Re: Why Homoeopathy is Bunk
Read the first post, Buz.
In fact, read the thread. I've already posted the answer in detail.
Hint: You need to know what Avogadro's Number is.
http://gemini.tntech.edu/~tfurtsch/scihist/avogadro.htm

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Buzsaw, posted 07-26-2008 3:38 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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