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Author Topic:   Jared v. Hovind
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 106 of 118 (308701)
05-03-2006 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by inkorrekt
04-27-2006 8:34 PM


please join me in a Great Debate
quote:
Scientific fraud is common. The resaons are many. The quest for Tenure and grants is so serious that people are willing to do anything. Who has the time and money to verify the authenticity and claims of those who publish papers? That means, we are left with false data and wrong conclusions. So much for competitive endeavor.
Ink, I would very much like to discuss these claims of yours in another thread.
In fact, I propose that just you and I make it a great debate topic, although I'd also participate happily in a regular thread on the subject.
Please reply and indicate if you are willing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by inkorrekt, posted 04-27-2006 8:34 PM inkorrekt has not replied

  
inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6082 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 107 of 118 (310160)
05-07-2006 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by CK
05-03-2006 5:19 AM


Re: Another unsupported assertion
Personal testimony is worth less than zero in science - do you have any way for us to verify your story
I am sure you know this very well if have been in academics. After knowing how sensitive this issue is, is it right on your part to ask for more information? Only the "perpetrators" and those around them know what is going on. Unless those who call themselves as Scientiists restrain themselves and exercise personal responsibility and accountability, no one can do anything about this. However, there are many hugry lawyers who are willing to make somebody's life miserable for the almighty "dollar"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by CK, posted 05-03-2006 5:19 AM CK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by inkorrekt, posted 07-23-2006 6:55 PM inkorrekt has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 108 of 118 (310189)
05-08-2006 2:12 AM


another whopper for jared
jared! you didn't call him on this one either:
CB930.4: Pterodactyl in stone
edit: i don't mean offense, of course. hovind is quid skilled at the run-around, and knows how to sound like he has a point and make you look uneducated because you don't have all the sources at your fingertips. it's not as readily apparent to the audience just how full of it he is when he trots out the "common designer" argument -- when he can clearly see that archaeopteryx's hip is identical to deinonychus's, and clearly a "lizard hip" even though archie is a "bird." the advantages of radio -- diagrams don't work well. and you're never going to get an admission of error from him.
This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 05-08-2006 02:16 AM


  
Teets_Creationist
Inactive Member


Message 109 of 118 (317630)
06-04-2006 3:18 PM


Back On Original Topic
Yes, this is correct! I'm sure that any creationist/evolutionist will agree...Jared handles Hovind extremely well! He debates with Hovind and can SOUND as scientific as Hovind. However, I don't think that Jared's intention is to be a good speaker/debater. Jared handles Hovind, but not science. He SOUNDS scientific, but obviously is as clueless with his own beliefs as he believes Hovind is with his.
You evolutionists had better just stick with personal attacks on Hovind's spelling and "gramatical errors", because science isn't really your area! Jared, I believe you are truely sincere, but spouting your own beliefs and mixing in a little science isn't proving anything against Hovind. Hovind will admit his religion at least.

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by inkorrekt, posted 07-22-2006 6:18 PM Teets_Creationist has not replied
 Message 116 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-27-2006 11:30 PM Teets_Creationist has not replied

  
inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6082 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 110 of 118 (334337)
07-22-2006 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Teets_Creationist
06-04-2006 3:18 PM


Re: Back On Original Topic
When Logic and reasoning fail, Emotions take over.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Teets_Creationist, posted 06-04-2006 3:18 PM Teets_Creationist has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by AdminNosy, posted 07-22-2006 6:27 PM inkorrekt has not replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 111 of 118 (334343)
07-22-2006 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by inkorrekt
07-22-2006 6:18 PM


Topic
You have posted 4 or so useless posts in the last short while. Do not continue!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by inkorrekt, posted 07-22-2006 6:18 PM inkorrekt has not replied

  
inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6082 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 112 of 118 (334595)
07-23-2006 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by inkorrekt
05-07-2006 11:19 PM


Re: Another unsupported assertion
This is also a public forum. We are here to discuss issues with rationality. If you have not heard anything like this or have not experienced yourself does not mean that they do not exist.This is life and we have to live with this. Giving more information here will cause public embarrassment. I am not going to use this forum for this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by inkorrekt, posted 05-07-2006 11:19 PM inkorrekt has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Admin, posted 07-23-2006 7:34 PM inkorrekt has not replied
 Message 114 by nator, posted 07-23-2006 7:48 PM inkorrekt has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 113 of 118 (334614)
07-23-2006 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by inkorrekt
07-23-2006 6:55 PM


Re: Another unsupported assertion
inkorrekt writes:
This is also a public forum.
This is a *moderated* public forum. Rule 1 of the Forum Guidelines asks that you follow moderator requests.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by inkorrekt, posted 07-23-2006 6:55 PM inkorrekt has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 114 of 118 (334619)
07-23-2006 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by inkorrekt
07-23-2006 6:55 PM


Re: Another unsupported assertion
quote:
Scientific fraud is common. The resaons are many. The quest for Tenure and grants is so serious that people are willing to do anything. Who has the time and money to verify the authenticity and claims of those who publish papers? That means, we are left with false data and wrong conclusions. So much for competitive endeavor.
Ink, I would very much like to discuss these claims of yours in another thread.
In fact, I propose that just you and I make it a great debate topic, although I'd also participate happily in a regular thread on the subject.
Please reply and indicate if you are willing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by inkorrekt, posted 07-23-2006 6:55 PM inkorrekt has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 115 of 118 (335847)
07-27-2006 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Yaro
10-04-2005 5:52 PM


Kent :vs: Jared
This site is full of MP3s of this guy, Jared Hoag, calling into Kent Hovinds radio show and basically taking Dr. Dino to task. He's pretty good, and pretty knowledgable, it's pretty entertaining hearing Hovind get shot down time after time, only to have him deny that he has been disproven.
As many of you know, I am a creationist and a Christian. Though I take that position based on any number of reasons, I do not show partiality or display a full allegience to anyone claiming such. I think Hovind is an excellent orator and a great debator. Having said that, so was Hitler. That doesn't mean that I respect Hitler or his views, just that I recognize that he was an excellent orator. Hovind is a bit too brash for me at times, and I find myself in disagreement with some of his conclusions. I also feel that he's a bit too antagonistic with his arguments. I think he could show a little more humility without himself becoming a doormat.
As far as Hoag is concerned, I think he's an intelligent man, and I think he's really given some of his arguments some thought. But even still, (and believe me, I'm not saying this because I'm a creationist) but Hovind defended his position better than Hoag did. And you know, sometimes that doesn't mean much. In a trial, it really comes down to the attorneys presenting their case. Some are better than others, and some are masters at manipulating the evidence in their favor even when its blatantly incorrect. You could say that Hovind's information is patently false, but nonetheless, he presents his arguments in superiority over Hoag. That's my critique. You can take it or leave it. I tried to be fair in my assesment without showing bias.

“Always be ready to give a defense to
everyone who asks you a reason for the
hope that is in you.”
-1st Peter 3:15

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 116 of 118 (335882)
07-27-2006 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Teets_Creationist
06-04-2006 3:18 PM


Re: Back On Original Topic
You evolutionists had better just stick with personal attacks on Hovind's spelling and "gramatical errors
No, I'd rather take a look at the quality of his science.
Here's Kent Hovind's idea of what the theory of evolution is : "[A]ll life came from nothing, 18 billion years ago". *
Is this an isolated error? Not at all. A search of his website reveals one solitary article, not written by Hovind --- that even mentions the words "natural selection".
It appears that Hovind literally doesn't know the first thing about the subject he's discussing. If he doesn't know what the theory of evolution is, how can he hope to debate it?
OK, now lets look at his expertise on phisics, as he demonstrates that he's ... ooh, not quite as smart as Einstein.: "Einstein's theory was that the speed of light is a constant. Time is the variable. Maybe he was wrong. Maybe time is the constant and light is the variable" * Yes, he did just suggest thaat time might be a constant. But to be fair to him, I don't suppose for a minute that he knows what those words mean.
", because science isn't really your area!
Wrong.
Here are some more people whose area really is science.
"Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin."
--- Albanian Academy of Sciences; National Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences, Argentina; Australian Academy of Science; Austrian Academy of Sciences; Bangladesh Academy of Sciences; The Royal Academies for Science and the Arts of Belgium; Academy of Sciences and Arts of Bosnia and Herzegovina; Brazilian Academy of Sciences; Bulgarian Academy of Sciences; The Academies of Arts, Humanities and Sciences of Canada; Academia Chilena de Ciencias; Chinese Academy of Sciences; Academia Sinica, China, Taiwan; Colombian Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences; Croatian Academy of Arts and Sciences; Cuban Academy of Sciences; Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic; Royal Danish Academy of Sciences and Letters; Academy of Scientific Research and Technology, Egypt; Académie des Sciences, France; Union of German Academies of Sciences and Humanities; The Academy of Athens, Greece; Hungarian Academy of Sciences; Indian National Science Academy; Indonesian Academy of Sciences; Academy of Sciences of the Islamic Republic of Iran; Royal Irish Academy; Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities; Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Italy; Science Council of Japan; Kenya National Academy of Sciences; National Academy of Sciences of the Kyrgyz Republic; Latvian Academy of Sciences; Lithuanian Academy of Sciences; Macedonian Academy of Sciences and Arts; Academia Mexicana de Ciencias; Mongolian Academy of Sciences; Academy of the Kingdom of Morocco; The Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences; Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand; Nigerian Academy of Sciences; Pakistan Academy of Sciences; Palestine Academy for Science and Technology; Academia Nacional de Ciencias del Peru; National Academy of Science and Technology, The Philippines; Polish Academy of Sciences; Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal; Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts; Singapore National Academy of Sciences; Slovak Academy of Sciences; Slovenian Academy of Sciences and Arts; Academy of Science of South Africa; Royal Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences of Spain; National Academy of Sciences, Sri Lanka; Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences; Council of the Swiss Scientific Academies; Academy of Sciences, Republic of Tajikistan; Turkish Academy of Sciences; The Uganda National Academy of Sciences; The Royal Society, UK; US National Academy of Sciences; Uzbekistan Academy of Sciences; Academia de Ciencias Físicas, Matemáticas y Naturales de Venezuela; Zimbabwe Academy of Sciences; The Caribbean Academy of Sciences; African Academy of Sciences; The Academy of Sciences for the Developing World (TWAS); The Executive Board of the International Council for Science (ICSU). *
"Teaching religious ideas mislabeled as science is detrimental to scientific education: It sets up a false conflict between science and religion, misleads our youth about the nature of scientific inquiry, and thereby compromises our ability to respond to the problems of an increasingly technological world. Our capacity to cope with problems of food production, health care, and even national defense will be jeopardized if we deliberately strip our citizens of the power to distinguish between the phenomena of nature and supernatural articles of faith. "Creation-science" simply has no place in the public-school science classroom."
---American winners of the Nobel Prize in the sciences: Luis W. Alvarez, Carl D. Anderson, Christian B. Anfinsen, Julius Axelrod, David Baltimore, John Bardeen, Paul Berg, Hans A. Bethe, Konrad Bloch, Nicolaas Bloembergen, Michael S. Brown, Herbert C. Brown, Melvin Calvin, S. Chandrasekhar, Leon N. Cooper, Allan Cormack, Andre Cournand, Francis Crick, Renato Dulbecco, Leo Esaki, Val L. Fitch, William A. Fowler, Murray Gell-Mann, Ivar Giaever, Walter Gilbert, Donald A. Glaser, Sheldon Lee Glashow, Joseph L. Goldstein, Roger Guillemin, Roald Hoffmann, Robert Hofstadter, Robert W. Holley, David H. Hubel, Charles B. Huggins, H. Gobind Khorana, Arthur Kornberg, Polykarp Kusch, Willis E. Lamb, Jr., William Lipscomb, Salvador E. Luria, Barbara McClintock, Bruce Merrifield, Robert S. Mulliken, Daniel Nathans, Marshall Nirenberg, John H. Northrop, Severo Ochoa, George E. Palade, Linus Pauling, Arno A. Penzias, Edward M. Purcell, Isidor I. Rabi, Burton Richter, Frederick Robbins, J. Robert Schrieffer, Glenn T. Seaborg, Emilio Segre, Hamilton O. Smith, George D. Snell, Roger Sperry, Henry Taube, Howard M. Temin, Samuel C. C. Ting, Charles H. Townes, James D. Watson, Steven Weinberg, Thomas H. Weller, Eugene P. Wigner, Kenneth G. Wilson, Robert W. Wilson, Rosalyn Yalow, Chen Ning Yang. *
"Evolutionary theory ranks with Einstein's theory of relativity as one of modern science's most robust, generally accepted, thoroughly tested and broadly applicable concepts. From the standpoint of science, there is no controversy."
--- Louise Lamphere, President of the American Anthropological Association; Mary Pat Matheson, President of the American Assn of Botanical Gardens and Arboreta; Eugenie Scott, President of the American Association of Physical Anthropologists; Robert Milkey, Executive Officer of the American Astronomical Society; Barbara Joe Hoshiazaki, President of the American Fern Society; Oliver A. Ryder, President of the American Genetic Association; Larry Woodfork, President of the American Geological Institute; Marcia McNutt, President of the American Geophysical Union; Judith S. Weis, President of the American Institute of Biological Sciences; Arvind K.N. Nandedkar, President of the American Institute of Chemists; Robert H. Fakundiny, President of the American Institute of Professional Geologists; Hyman Bass, President of the American Mathematical Society; Ronald D. McPherson, Executive Director of the American Meteorological Society; John W. Fitzpatrick, President of the American Ornithologists' Union; George Trilling, President of the American Physical Society; Martin Frank, Executive Director of the American Physiological Society; Steven Slack, President of the American Phytopathological Society; Raymond D. Fowler, Chief Executive Officer American Psychological Association; Alan Kraut, Executive Director of the American Psychological Society; Catherine E. Rudder, Executive Director of the American Political Science Association; Robert D. Wells, President of the American Society for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology; Abigail Salyers, President of the American Society for Microbiology; Brooks Burr, President of the American Society of Ichthylogists & Herpetologists; Thomas H. Kunz, President of the American Society of Mammalogists; Mary Anne Holmes, President of the Association for Women Geoscientists; Linda H. Mantel, President of the Association for Women in Science; Ronald F. Abler, Executive Director of the Association of American Geographers; Vicki Cowart, President of the Association of American State Geologists; Nils Hasselmo, President of the Association of American Universities; Thomas A. Davis, President of the Assn. of College & University Biology Educators; Richard Jones, President of the Association of Earth Science Editors; Rex Upp, President of the Association of Engineering Geologists; Robert R. Haynes, President of the Association of Southeastern Biologists; Kenneth R. Ludwig, Director of the Berkeley Geochronology Center; Rodger Bybee, Executive Director of the Biological Sciences Curriculum Study; Mary Dicky Barkley, President of the Biophysical Society; Judy Jernstedt, President of the Botanical Society of America; Ken Atkins, Secretary of the Burlington-Edison Cmte. for Science Education; Austin Dacey, Director of the Center for Inquiry Institute; Blair F. Jones, President of the Clay Minerals Society; Barbara Forrest, President of the Citizens for the Advancement of Science Education; Timothy Moy, President of the Coalition for Excellence in Science and Math Education; K. Elaine Hoagland, National Executive Officer Council on Undergraduate Research; David A. Sleper, President of the Crop Science Society of America; Steve Culver, President of the Cushman Foundation for Foraminiferal Research; Pamela Matson, President of the Ecological Society of America; Larry L. Larson, President of the Entomological Society of America; Royce Engstrom, Chair of the Board of Directors of the EPSCoR Foundation; Robert R. Rich, President of the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology; Stephen W. Porges, President of the Federation of Behavioral, Psychological and Cognitive Sciences; Roger D. Masters, President of the Foundation for Neuroscience and Society; Kevin S. Cummings, President of the Freshwater Mollusk Conservation Society; Sharon Mosher, President of the Geological Society of America; Dennis J. Richardson, President of the Helminthological Society of Washington; Aaron M. Bauer, President of the Herpetologists' League; William Perrotti, President of the Human Anatomy & Physiology Society; Lorna G. Moore, President of the Human Biology Association; Don Johanson, Director of the Institute of Human Origins; Harry McDonald, President of the Kansas Association of Biology Teachers; Steve Lopes, President of the Kansas Citizens For Science; Margaret W. Reynolds, Executive Director of the Linguistic Society of America; Robert T. Pennock, President of the Michigan Citizens for Science; Cornelis "Kase" Klein,President of the Mineralogical Society of America; Ann Lumsden, President of the National Association of Biology Teachers; Darryl Wilkins, President of the National Association for Black Geologists & Geophysicists; Steven C. Semken, President of the National Association of Geoscience Teachers; Kevin Padian, President of the National Center for Science Education; Tom Ervin, President of the National Earth Science Teachers Association; Gerald Wheeler, Executive Director of the National Science Teachers Association; Meredith Lane, President of the Natural Science Collections Alliance; Cathleen May, President of the Newkirk Engler & May Foundation; Dave Thomas, President of the New Mexicans for Science and Reason; Marshall Berman, President (elect) of the New Mexico Academy of Science; Connie J. Manson, President of the Northwest Geological Society; Lydia Villa-Komaroff, Vice Pres. for Research Northwestern University; Gary S. Hartshorn, President of the Organization for Tropical Studies; Warren Allmon, Director of the Paleontological Research Institution; Patricia Kelley, President of the Paleontological Society; Henry R. Owen, Director of Phi Sigma: The Biological Sciences Honor Society; Charles Yarish, President of the Phycological Society of America; Barbara J. Moore, President and CEO of Shape Up America!; Robert L. Kelly, President of the Society for American Archaeology; Richard Wilk, President of the Society for Economic Anthropology; Marvalee Wake, President of the Society for Integrative and Comparative Biology; Gilbert Strang, Past-Pres. & Science Policy Chair of the Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics; Prasanta K. Mukhopadhyay, President of the Society for Organic Petrology; Howard E. Harper, Executive Director of the Society for Sedimentary Geology; Nick Barton, President of the Society for the Study of Evolution; Deborah Sacrey, President of the Society of Independent Professional Earth Scientists; J.D. Hughes, President of the Society of Petroleum Evaluation Engineers; Lea K. Bleyman, President of the Society of Protozoologists; Elizabeth Kellogg, President of the Society of Systematic Biologists; David L. Eaton, President of the Society of Toxicology; Richard Stuckey, President of the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology; Pat White, Executive Director of the Triangle Coalition for Science and Technology Education; Richard A. Anthes, President of the University Corporation for Atmospheric Research. *
And Kent Hovind thinks that time is a constant.
Go figure.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : Formatting error.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Teets_Creationist, posted 06-04-2006 3:18 PM Teets_Creationist has not replied

  
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 117 of 118 (338367)
08-07-2006 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by PurpleYouko
04-26-2006 10:01 AM


Re: Keeping The Establishment Accountable
I recieved an email a couple of weeks back from a supposedly reputable internet based University, offering to sell me a Ph.D (or many other kinds of degrees) for a price.
As a point of interest I just had another of those emails today.
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Bachelors, Masters, MBA and/or Doctorate (PhD)
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1-206-984-0002
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Regards,
Professor. Christopher Martin
According to this Anybody can get a degree or PhD.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 118 of 118 (338371)
08-07-2006 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by PurpleYouko
08-07-2006 11:34 AM


Re: Keeping The Establishment Accountable
Of course, there is a difference between a paper mill, and an accredited university.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by PurpleYouko, posted 08-07-2006 11:34 AM PurpleYouko has not replied

  
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