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Author Topic:   Creationist theory
Sandor Szabados
Inactive Member


Message 136 of 151 (332184)
07-16-2006 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Sandor Szabados
07-16-2006 10:32 AM


The Evolution of Life
"40,000,000 years ago the land areas of the Northern Hemisphere began to elevate, and this was followed by new extensive land deposits and other terrestrial activities, including lava flows, warping, lake formation, and erosion.
During the latter part of this epoch most of Europe was submerged. Following a slight land rise the continent was covered by lakes and bays. The Arctic Ocean, through the Ural depression, ran south to connect with the Mediterranean Sea as it was then expanded northward, the highlands of the Alps, Carpathians, Apennines, and Pyrenees being up above the water as islands of the sea. The Isthmus of Panama was up; the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans were separated. North America was connected with Asia by the Bering Strait land bridge and with Europe by way of Greenland and Iceland. The earth circuit of land in northern latitudes was broken only by the Ural Straits, which connected the arctic seas with the enlarged Mediterranean.
Considerable foraminiferal limestone was deposited in European waters. Today this same stone is elevated to a height of 10,000 feet in the Alps, 16,000 feet in the Himalayas, and 20,000 feet in Tibet. The chalk deposits of this period are found along the coasts of Africa and Australia, on the west coast of South America, and about the West Indies.
Throughout this so-called Eocene period the evolution of mammalian and other related forms of life continued with little or no interruption. North America was then connected by land with every continent except Australia, and the world was gradually overrun by primitive mammalian fauna of various types.
THE RECENT FLOOD STAGE
THE AGE OF ADVANCED MAMMALS
This period was characterized by the further and rapid evolution of placental mammals, the more progressive forms of mammalian life developing during these times.
Although the early placental mammals sprang from carnivorous ancestors, very soon herbivorous branches developed, and, erelong, omnivorous mammalian families also sprang up. The angiosperms were the principal food of the rapidly increasing mammals, the modern land flora, including the majority of present-day plants and trees, having appeared during earlier periods.
35,000,000 years ago marks the beginning of the age of placental-mammalian world domination. The southern land bridge was extensive, reconnecting the then enormous Antarctic continent with South America, South Africa, and Australia. In spite of the massing of land in high latitudes, the world climate remained relatively mild because of the enormous increase in the size of the tropic seas, nor was the land elevated sufficiently to produce glaciers. Extensive lava flows occurred in Greenland and Iceland, some coal being deposited between these layers.
Marked changes were taking place in the fauna of the planet. The sea life was undergoing great modification; most of the present-day orders of marine life were in existence, and foraminifers continued to play an important role. The insect life was much like that of the previous era. The Florissant fossil beds of Colorado belong to the later years of these far-distant times. Most of the living insect families go back to this period, but many then in existence are now extinct, though their fossils remain.
On land this was pre-eminently the age of mammalian renovation and expansion. Of the earlier and more primitive mammals, over one hundred species were extinct before this period ended. Even the mammals of large size and small brain soon perished. Brains and agility had replaced armor and size in the progress of animal survival. And with the dinosaur family on the decline, the mammals slowly assumed domination of the earth, speedily and completely destroying the remainder of their reptilian ancestors.
Along with the disappearance of the dinosaurs, other and great changes occurred in the various branches of the saurian family. The surviving members of the early reptilian families are turtles, snakes, and crocodiles, together with the venerable frog, the only remaining group representative of man's earlier ancestors.
Various groups of mammals had their origin in a unique animal now extinct. This carnivorous creature was something of a cross between a cat and a seal; it could live on land or in water and was highly intelligent and very active. In Europe the ancestor of the canine family evolved, soon giving rise to many species of small dogs. About the same time the gnawing rodents, including beavers, squirrels, gophers, mice, and rabbits, appeared and soon became a notable form of life, very little change having since occurred in this family. The later deposits of this period contain the fossil remains of dogs, cats, coons, and weasels in ancestral form." (p.694-95)
From The URANTIA Book (1955), a Divine Revelation - Just a moment...
Religion without science has no foundation; science without religion has no direction.
Edited by Sandor Szabados, : Add source of quotes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Sandor Szabados, posted 07-16-2006 10:32 AM Sandor Szabados has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Sandor Szabados, posted 07-16-2006 2:06 PM Sandor Szabados has replied

Sandor Szabados
Inactive Member


Message 137 of 151 (332218)
07-16-2006 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Sandor Szabados
07-16-2006 11:29 AM


The Evolution of Life
"30,000,000 years ago the modern types of mammals began to make their appearance. Formerly the mammals had lived for the greater part in the hills, being of the mountainous types; 'suddenly' there began the evolution of the plains or hoofed type, the grazing species, as differentiated from the clawed flesh eaters. These grazers sprang from an undifferentiated ancestor having five toes and forty-four teeth, which perished before the end of the age. Toe evolution did not progress beyond the three-toed stage throughout this period.
The horse, an outstanding example of evolution, lived during these times in both North America and Europe, though his development was not fully completed until the later ice age. While the rhinoceros family appeared at the close of this period, it underwent its greatest expansion subsequently. A small hoglike creature also developed which became the ancestor of the many species of swine, peccaries, and hippopotamuses. Camels and llamas had their origin in North America about the middle of this period and overran the western plains. Later, the llamas migrated to South America, the camels to Europe, and soon both were extinct in North America, though a few camels survived up to the ice age.
About this time a notable thing occurred in western North America: The early ancestors of the ancient lemurs first made their appearance. While this family cannot be regarded as true lemurs, their coming marked the establishment of the line from which the true lemurs subsequently sprang.
Like the land serpents of a previous age which betook themselves to the seas, now a whole tribe of placental mammals deserted the land and took up their residence in the oceans. And they have ever since remained in the sea, yielding the modern whales, dolphins, porpoises, seals, and sea lions.
The bird life of the planet continued to develop, but with few important evolutionary changes. The majority of modern birds were existent, including gulls, herons, flamingoes, buzzards, falcons, eagles, owls, quails, and ostriches.
By the close of this 'Oligocene' period, covering ten million years, the plant life, together with the marine life and the land animals, had very largely evolved and was present on earth much as today. Considerable specialization has subsequently appeared, but the ancestral forms of most living things were then alive." (p.695-96)
From The URANTIA Book (1955), a Divine Revelation - Just a moment...
Religion without science has no foundation; science without religion has no direction

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Sandor Szabados, posted 07-16-2006 11:29 AM Sandor Szabados has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Sandor Szabados, posted 07-16-2006 2:45 PM Sandor Szabados has not replied

Sandor Szabados
Inactive Member


Message 138 of 151 (332227)
07-16-2006 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Sandor Szabados
07-16-2006 2:06 PM


The Evolution of Life
"THE MODERN MOUNTAIN STAGE
THE AGE OF THE ELEPHANT AND THE HORSE
Land elevation and sea segregation were slowly changing the world's weather, gradually cooling it, but the climate was still mild. Sequoias and magnolias grew in Greenland, but the subtropical plants were beginning to migrate southward. By the end of this period these warm-climate plants and trees had largely disappeared from the northern latitudes, their places being taken by more hardy plants and the deciduous trees.
There was a great increase in the varieties of grasses, and the teeth of many mammalian species gradually altered to conform to the present-day grazing type.
25,000,000 years ago there was a slight land submergence following the long epoch of land elevation. The Rocky Mountain region remained highly elevated so that the deposition of erosion material continued throughout the lowlands to the east. The Sierras were well re-elevated; in fact, they have been rising ever since. The great four-mile vertical fault in the California region dates from this time.
20,000,000 years ago was indeed the golden age of mammals. Bering Strait land bridge was up, and many groups of animals migrated to North America from Asia, including the four-tusked mastodons, short-legged rhinoceroses, and many varieties of the cat family.
The first deer appeared, and North America was soon overrun by ruminants--deer, oxen, camels, bison, and several species of rhinoceroses--but the giant pigs, more than six feet tall, became extinct.
The huge elephants of this and subsequent periods possessed large brains as well as large bodies, and they soon overran the entire world except Australia. For once the world was dominated by a huge animal with a brain sufficiently large to enable it to carry on. Confronted by the highly intelligent life of these ages, no animal the size of an elephant could have survived unless it had possessed a brain of large size and superior quality. In intelligence and adaptation the elephant is approached only by the horse and is surpassed only by man himself. Even so, of the fifty species of elephants in existence at the opening of this period, only two have survived." (p.696-97)
From The URANTIA Book (1955), a Divine Revelation - Just a moment...
Religion without science has no foundation; science without religion has no direction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Sandor Szabados, posted 07-16-2006 2:06 PM Sandor Szabados has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Admin, posted 07-17-2006 2:25 PM Sandor Szabados has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 139 of 151 (332561)
07-17-2006 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Sandor Szabados
07-16-2006 2:45 PM


Re: The Evolution of Life
Hi Sandor,
I didn't have a chance to reply until just now, but in case you were wondering why you've lost your privileges in the Showcase forum, it was for a truly spectacular violation of rule 6 of the Forum Guidelines:
  1. Avoid lengthy cut-n-pastes. Introduce the point in your own words and provide a link to your source as a reference. If your source is not on-line you may contact the Site Administrator to have it made available on-line.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Sandor Szabados, posted 07-16-2006 2:45 PM Sandor Szabados has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by John A. Davison, posted 07-20-2006 7:21 PM Admin has not replied
 Message 141 by John A. Davison, posted 07-21-2006 5:24 AM Admin has replied

John A. Davison 
Inactive Member


Message 140 of 151 (333814)
07-20-2006 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Admin
07-17-2006 2:25 PM


Re: The Evolution of Life
It is hard to believe isn't it?

"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Admin, posted 07-17-2006 2:25 PM Admin has not replied

John A. Davison 
Inactive Member


Message 141 of 151 (333907)
07-21-2006 5:24 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Admin
07-17-2006 2:25 PM


Re: The Evolution of Life
What I want to know is when is EvC going to readmit me to full membership? Or is that simply out of the question and if so why?

"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Admin, posted 07-17-2006 2:25 PM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Admin, posted 07-21-2006 6:23 AM John A. Davison has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 142 of 151 (333912)
07-21-2006 6:23 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by John A. Davison
07-21-2006 5:24 AM


Re: The Evolution of Life
Hi John,
You do have privileges in the [forum=-19] forum if you'd like to raise the issue there. General discussion of moderation procedures - Part 7 is one thread you might try, Showcase Forum Issues and Requests is another.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by John A. Davison, posted 07-21-2006 5:24 AM John A. Davison has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by John A. Davison, posted 07-21-2006 6:31 AM Admin has replied

John A. Davison 
Inactive Member


Message 143 of 151 (333914)
07-21-2006 6:31 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by Admin
07-21-2006 6:23 AM


Re: The Evolution of Life
What part of "full membership" do you not understand?

"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Admin, posted 07-21-2006 6:23 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Admin, posted 07-21-2006 8:12 AM John A. Davison has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 144 of 151 (333922)
07-21-2006 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by John A. Davison
07-21-2006 6:31 AM


Re: The Evolution of Life
John A. Davison writes:
What part of "full membership" do you not understand?
Your privileges are restricted because you tend to ignore the Forum Guidelines and moderator requests. For example, right now you're posting off-topic to this thread, and you're refusing to follow a moderator's request to take your issue to the proper thread.
I understand if you're unwilling to continue participation at EvC Forum under these circumstances. I'll be very sorry to see you go, and you'll always be welcome to return.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by John A. Davison, posted 07-21-2006 6:31 AM John A. Davison has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by John A. Davison, posted 07-21-2006 12:24 PM Admin has not replied

John A. Davison 
Inactive Member


Message 145 of 151 (333975)
07-21-2006 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Admin
07-21-2006 8:12 AM


Re: The Evolution of Life
To return when I am not even a bona fide member now? Surely you jest. Thanks for finally explaining my status. I should have known. I at least have it in black and white now. I cherish your stated position. Have a nice cozy "groupthink,"
"Where all think alike, no one thinks very much."
Walter Lippmann

"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Admin, posted 07-21-2006 8:12 AM Admin has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 146 of 151 (333998)
07-21-2006 1:31 PM


Topic Drift Alert
I apologize for the topic diversion, but I wanted to let John know where he stood, and he wouldn't follow the request to take his issues to the proper thread.
Subsequent posts to this thread should address the topic. If you posted a message after this one, but before seeing this message, go back and fix it immediately. I'll be issuing short suspensions for off-topic posts that appear after this one. Thanks!

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by John A. Davison, posted 07-21-2006 6:48 PM Admin has not replied

John A. Davison 
Inactive Member


Message 147 of 151 (334101)
07-21-2006 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Admin
07-21-2006 1:31 PM


Re: Topic Drift Alert
Tropic drift alert! My God it sounds like the military.
Do you have a last name that you would be willing to divulge?
EvC is hard to believe isn't it?
Edited by AdminJar, : off topic message hidden

"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Admin, posted 07-21-2006 1:31 PM Admin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Syamsu, posted 07-22-2006 6:53 AM John A. Davison has not replied

Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5590 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 148 of 151 (334208)
07-22-2006 6:53 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by John A. Davison
07-21-2006 6:48 PM


Re: Topic Drift Alert
Yes professor Davison, when you enter my thread you should at the very least give a meaningful comment about the subject at issue.
Since you frequently mention Einstein, why don't you comment on the creationist view of wave-particle duality, which duality was Einstein's main pre-occupation in science.
Creationist theory asserts that the probabilitywave of a thing collapses, and consequently comes to behave as a particle, when it reaches a point of decision.
So in the double-slit experiment;
Double-slit experiment - Wikipedia
- the light behaves as a wave, creating an interference pattern
- if one were to put a detector at a slit, and observe the which way information from the detector, the light would behave as a particle
- if one were to put a detector at a slit, but not observe the which-way information from the detector, then the light would behave as a wave
- if one were to put a detector at a slit, and attach a randomizer to the detector ( a device which chooses to turn a light on or off if a photon is detected at the slit ) then the light will behave as a particle
So to say, creationism asserts that when a probabilitywave of a thing finds a decision in it's future, be it a decision of a randomizer or decision of a human observer, then the probabilitywave will collapse, and the thing will behave as a particle.
Why this is all creationist, is because any decision has a spiritual owner. Now please take a wild guess, about whether or not this is all true to fact.
regards,
Mohammad Nur Syamsu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by John A. Davison, posted 07-21-2006 6:48 PM John A. Davison has not replied

Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5590 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 149 of 151 (362574)
11-08-2006 6:37 AM


mainstream science getting round to creationism
Page introuvable
Above is some paper talking about free behaviour (anticipation) as a basic property of physical systems. It's a complicated paper, but one might still get the gist of it by a cursory reading.
Freedom is essential to creationist theory, as the act of creation is free, as explained in post 1 of this thread.
The paper seems to be lacking explicit reference to the spiritual as the owners to decisions, in stead it suggests things like pleasure and pain as functional owners (a finality), so that would be heaven and hell in creationist terms. Anyway this "pleasure" the researcher talks about seems to be essentially outside the physical system, so it is spiritual in that sense of being outside the physical.
Go and read this paper if you want to develop, and be more aware of your knowledge about free behaviour, which knowledge is much oppressed by Darwinism for most people.
regards,
Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by nwr, posted 11-08-2006 1:30 PM Syamsu has replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 150 of 151 (362643)
11-08-2006 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Syamsu
11-08-2006 6:37 AM


Re: mainstream science getting round to creationism
If you are equating freedom with a term in an equation, some of us will see that as a denial of freedom.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Syamsu, posted 11-08-2006 6:37 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Syamsu, posted 11-08-2006 4:03 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

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