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Author Topic:   Uncovering a Simulation
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5557 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 91 of 118 (485563)
10-09-2008 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Percy
10-09-2008 2:44 PM


Re: Hardcore atheism FTW
Agobot writes:
In a sentence, Einstein is right and you are wrong.
Percy writes:
You actually believe Einstein would agree with you? Interesting.
In any case, I'm not discussing this with Einstein, whose views you don't seem to understand, I'm discussing this with you. It's you I disagree with, not Einstein.
Where did i misunderstand Einstein? That reality does not exist? How could you misunderstand such a blunt statement?
You agree with Einstein that reality does not exist but you disagree with Agobot that reality does not exist? What should that mean?
It's you who have failed to understand Einstein's view toward reality from the beginning of this thread till now. Did you read this:
"We may therefore regard matter as being constituted by the regions of space in which the field is extremely intense....There is no place in this new kind of physics both for the field and matter, for the field is the only reality." A.Einstein
Didn't I say that there is only one reality in my previous post? Did you read it at all and what are you argueing against?
Percy writes:
They're not. They're just talking about different perceptual levels. You can look at the universe at the highest levels and see galaxies and groups of galaxies. You can look at the lowest levels and "see" (if the theory pans out) superstrings. You can look at intermediate levels and see planets, rocks and atoms.It's all the same reality just examined at different scales.
No there are not different perceptual levels of one reality. There is only one reality and one preception. One of them is composed entirely of energy and the other of matter. The one that is composed of "matter" is implied and perceived through living organisms senses. The other is not percieved, it's existing whether there is life or not. Whereas, as soon as life dies out on this planet, the classical world(or what you call reality) will disappear but the quantum world will remain unscathed because it's not a perceptional world.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind"
"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever - This is a somewhat new kind of religion"
-Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Percy, posted 10-09-2008 2:44 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Percy, posted 10-09-2008 4:40 PM Agobot has replied

  
Son Goku
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 118 (485566)
10-09-2008 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Vacate
10-09-2008 11:44 AM


Re: quote
The quote means what you say it means, not what Agobot is saying. It was said as he got older.*
*Reference: A. Pais, "Subtle is the Lord".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Vacate, posted 10-09-2008 11:44 AM Vacate has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22499
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 93 of 118 (485573)
10-09-2008 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Agobot
10-09-2008 3:58 PM


Re: Hardcore atheism FTW
Agobot writes:
Where did i misunderstand Einstein? That reality does not exist? How could you misunderstand such a blunt statement?
Trying to understand Einstein's position on various scientific issues by reading through his notable quotes is the wrong way to go about it. Even if your Einstein sound bites did accurately communicate his undoubtedly very nuanced views on these issues (they don't), you're committing the fallacy of appeal to authority, not once but numerous times.
No there are not different perceptual levels of one reality. There is only one reality and one preception. One of them is composed entirely of energy and the other of matter.
So in your view reality is composed entirely of energy while the world of perception is composed entirely of matter? Are you sure you meant to say this?
Whereas, as soon as life dies out on this planet, the classical world(or what you call reality)...
But I didn't call the classical world reality. I said there is only one reality, but many perceptual levels.
...will disappear but the quantum world will remain unscathed because it's not a perceptional world.
I think change is pretty much a constant at all perceptual levels.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Agobot, posted 10-09-2008 3:58 PM Agobot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Agobot, posted 10-09-2008 5:09 PM Percy has replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5557 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 94 of 118 (485575)
10-09-2008 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Percy
10-09-2008 4:40 PM


Re: Hardcore atheism FTW
Percy writes:
So in your view reality is composed entirely of energy while the world of perception is composed entirely of matter? Are you sure you meant to say this?
Yep, the real fundamental non-perceived world is an energy field, the other classical world is both matter and energy. Our senses perceive that energy in different forms - part of the EMR spectrum is light for us, part of the EMR spectrum is sounds for us, that same small part of EMR can be human speech for us, very dense energy can mean heat for our skin, etc. We perceive some of the energy in the energy field as energy and some as matter. It's not easy to imagine but the quantum energy fields "came alive" and knew of their existence, they explore themselves. We are the means that carry out their research and it's mind-boggling if not supernatural. We, being an energy field, are asking why we are the specific energy field that we are. That's the purpose of this board to find the answer to the question - why did the energy fields interact in such a way as to promote perception of existence to certain specific energy fields. So I'd say the question who we are would be better asked - Why are we the energy field that we are? What is this short-lived arrangement of energy fields for? What purpose does it serve?
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind"
"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever - This is a somewhat new kind of religion"
-Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Percy, posted 10-09-2008 4:40 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Percy, posted 10-10-2008 6:14 AM Agobot has replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5557 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 95 of 118 (485579)
10-09-2008 5:30 PM


I'd discourage my kids from studying quantum mechanics in school. It can be harsh to a vulnerable child's psyche.

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22499
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 96 of 118 (485612)
10-10-2008 6:14 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Agobot
10-09-2008 5:09 PM


Re: Hardcore atheism FTW
Agobot writes:
Yep, the real fundamental non-perceived world is an energy field, the other classical world is both matter and energy. Our senses perceive that energy in different forms - part of the EMR spectrum is light for us,...
Okay so far.
...part of the EMR spectrum is sounds for us,...
Sound isn't EMR, so...
...that same small part of EMR can be human speech for us,...
...this is nonsense.
We perceive some of the energy in the energy field as energy and some as matter.
Makes sense to me.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Agobot, posted 10-09-2008 5:09 PM Agobot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Agobot, posted 10-10-2008 6:49 AM Percy has replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5557 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 97 of 118 (485615)
10-10-2008 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Percy
10-10-2008 6:14 AM


Re: Hardcore atheism FTW
Percy writes:
Okay so far.
Percy writes:
...part of the EMR spectrum is sounds for us,...
Percy writes:
Sound isn't EMR, so...
Sound is EMR, 20Hz to 20kHz, take a look:
Spectrum of Electromagnetic Radiation ( EMR )
Or here in Wikipedia:
"The electromagnetic (EM) spectrum is the range of all possible electromagnetic radiation frequencies"
Electromagnetic spectrum - Wikipedia
I've finished a technical school of electronics, so the EMR spectrum is no news to me.
Agobot writes:
...that same small part of EMR can be human speech for us,...
Percy writes:
...this is nonsense.
Maybe you meant - what Percy said was nonsense.
Agobot writes:
We perceive some of the energy in the energy field as energy and some as matter.
Percy writes:
Makes sense to me.
It doesn't matter if it makes sense to you or not. Matter is form of condensed energy - energy "arranged" in atoms, which gives us the perception of "matter" and reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Percy, posted 10-10-2008 6:14 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by PaulK, posted 10-10-2008 7:05 AM Agobot has replied
 Message 100 by Vacate, posted 10-10-2008 7:17 AM Agobot has not replied
 Message 101 by Percy, posted 10-10-2008 7:33 AM Agobot has not replied
 Message 105 by Larni, posted 10-10-2008 8:48 AM Agobot has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 98 of 118 (485616)
10-10-2008 7:05 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Agobot
10-10-2008 6:49 AM


Re: Hardcore atheism FTW
quote:
Sound is EMR, 20Hz to 20kHz, take a look:
Spectrum of Electromagnetic Radiation ( EMR )
Or here in Wikipedia:
"The electromagnetic (EM) spectrum is the range of all possible electromagnetic radiation frequencies"
Electromagnetic spectrum - Wikipedia
Neither link says that sound is EMR. And it isn't, which is why it isn't transmitted through a vacuum.
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Agobot, posted 10-10-2008 6:49 AM Agobot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Agobot, posted 10-10-2008 7:15 AM PaulK has not replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5557 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 99 of 118 (485617)
10-10-2008 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by PaulK
10-10-2008 7:05 AM


Re: Hardcore atheism FTW
deleted
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind"
"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever - This is a somewhat new kind of religion"
-Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by PaulK, posted 10-10-2008 7:05 AM PaulK has not replied

  
Vacate
Member (Idle past 4628 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 100 of 118 (485619)
10-10-2008 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Agobot
10-10-2008 6:49 AM


Re: Hardcore atheism FTW
agobot writes:
I've finished a technical school of electronics, so the EMR spectrum is no news to me.
Lets say you got 99%, the difference between light and sound is the 1% you didn't know.
quote:
There are two main differences between sound waves and light waves. The first difference is in velocity. Sound waves travel through air at the speed of approximately 1,100 feet per second; light waves travel through air and empty space at a speed of approximately 186,000 miles per second. The second difference is that sound is composed of longitudinal waves (alternate compressions and expansions of matter) and light is composed of transverse waves in an electromagnetic field.
Although both are forms of wave motion, sound requires a solid, liquid, or gaseous medium; whereas light travels through empty space. The denser the medium, the greater the speed of sound. The opposite is true of light. Light travels approximately one-third slower in water than in air. Sound travels through all substances, but light cannot pass through opaque materials.
Integrated Publishing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Agobot, posted 10-10-2008 6:49 AM Agobot has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Percy, posted 10-10-2008 7:41 AM Vacate has not replied
 Message 103 by cavediver, posted 10-10-2008 7:47 AM Vacate has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22499
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 101 of 118 (485621)
10-10-2008 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Agobot
10-10-2008 6:49 AM


Re: Hardcore atheism FTW
Agobot writes:
I've finished a technical school of electronics, so the EMR spectrum is no news to me.
Show them this thread and ask for your money back, you should have no trouble getting it.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Agobot, posted 10-10-2008 6:49 AM Agobot has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22499
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 102 of 118 (485623)
10-10-2008 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Vacate
10-10-2008 7:17 AM


Re: Hardcore atheism FTW
Hi Vacate,
Sorry, but that's one of the worst descriptions I've ever seen for the differences between light and sound. Light is electromagnetic radiation transmitted by the flight of photons while sound is vibrations in matter.
The article is wrong about sound being only longitudinal waves. In solids sound can be transmitted as either longitudinal or transverse waves.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Vacate, posted 10-10-2008 7:17 AM Vacate has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3670 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 103 of 118 (485625)
10-10-2008 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Vacate
10-10-2008 7:17 AM


Re: Hardcore atheism FTW
Got to agree with Percy, there. It is attrocious!
There are two main differences between sound waves and light waves. The first difference is in velocity.
That's like saying that the first difference between the Moon and cheese is that the Moon is much further away than most cheese...
Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Vacate, posted 10-10-2008 7:17 AM Vacate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Vacate, posted 10-10-2008 8:15 AM cavediver has not replied

  
Vacate
Member (Idle past 4628 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 104 of 118 (485631)
10-10-2008 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by cavediver
10-10-2008 7:47 AM


Re: Hardcore atheism FTW
That's like saying that the first difference between the Moon and cheese is that the Moon is much further away than most cheese...
ROFL! The problem with smacking down the first site you can quote from is its likely wrong. Thanks for correcting me cavediver and Percy... and for making me laugh

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by cavediver, posted 10-10-2008 7:47 AM cavediver has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Stile, posted 10-10-2008 9:30 AM Vacate has not replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 105 of 118 (485632)
10-10-2008 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Agobot
10-10-2008 6:49 AM


Of light and sound.
Agobot writes:
Sound is EMR, 20Hz to 20kHz, take a look:
Spectrum of Electromagnetic Radiation ( EMR )
Or here in Wikipedia:
"The electromagnetic (EM) spectrum is the range of all possible electromagnetic radiation frequencies"
Electromagnetic spectrum - Wikipedia
I've finished a technical school of electronics, so the EMR spectrum is no news to me.
Did you mean to write this? Even your link shows that you are wrong. Way to go, Agobot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Agobot, posted 10-10-2008 6:49 AM Agobot has not replied

  
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