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Author Topic:   Galactic Tidal Tails - more evidence it's an old Universe !!
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5937 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 46 of 93 (82294)
02-02-2004 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Christian7
02-02-2004 6:36 PM


Guidosoft
I am afraid I cannot back up myself with a bible verse because I do not know what that means. Please explain sideline.
I assumed that you are referring to this statement
'Physical elements can not make self awarness.'
My reply
"Says who?"
What I mean that there is no reason why physical elements cannot make for self awareness. It may well be that such is not the case but there is nothing in the laws of physics that says these things are not possible.
Then we have this point of yours.
How is it possible that in a vast expance of complete void and explosion can accur. That would imply that you scientest are considering magic as an explination to the development of out highly complex system.
Again I ask why would you assume this to be so? We are aware of four fundemental forces and those four in interaction produce all the phenomena that we observe in nature including our own bodies.Now I do not understand your reference to complete void as there is no evidence that this is the case anymore than the vauum of space is actually 'empty'. I assume the explosion you refer to is the big bang however I do not see how that affects the ability of physical elements to assume conciousness or not. Could you point out how that is a problem.
Magic is not necessary to explain the development of highly complex systems.
If a fish could evolve into a crocadile, it would prove even more there was an intelleagent designer.
This is interesting could you tell me how this proves such a thing?
Weather evolution is true or not. It had to start from a creator.
Personaly I backup the geneses account recorded in the bible. "In the begining God created the heavens and the earth" Genesis 1:1
Here you state that it had to start from a creator and then quote genesis.Please understand that this is not evidence of a creator but evidence of a book that claims a God created the heavens and the earth.
By the way, the bible does imply man has a soul, many many many times.
I mean it states it.
Here is an example were is suggests it: This is somewere in geneses in the bible:
"...the breath of life ,and man became a living soul" somewhere in the book of geneses(THAT WAS WRITTEN BY MOSES) in the bible
This is in response to my post.
"Where I am getting is that we have a soul"
Can you back up that statement with evidence?
Again quoting phrases from the Bible does not constitute evidence of anything but the bible stating that there is a soul.
I do hope this helps to straighten things out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Christian7, posted 02-02-2004 6:36 PM Christian7 has not replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 93 (82299)
02-02-2004 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Itachi Uchiha
01-31-2004 9:40 PM


Mercy sakes, sorry for going off topic. Good question jazz. As Eta outlined in the first post, the galactic tidal tails can be easily explained with classical physics, Newtonian physics of gravity and the such. It is similar to those algebra questions where train x leaves the station at 50 mph going east and train y leaves the station at 40 mph going west. How far apart are they after 4 hours? Same thing applies here. By measuring the speed of objects you can build a model of where they used to be. The speeds of the satellite galaxies is slow enough that they shouldn't have interacted with the Milky Way if the universe is 6,000 years old. However, if we turn the clock back in the distant past they would have interacted with the Milky Way. The presence of the tidal tails speaks of that interaction and fits the model very well.
So the theory that the universe is old is supported (not proved, mind you) while there is no evidence of a young universe. If the universe were young we would not expect tidal tails, but there they are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Itachi Uchiha, posted 01-31-2004 9:40 PM Itachi Uchiha has replied

Replies to this message:
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Christian7
Member (Idle past 278 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 48 of 93 (82303)
02-02-2004 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Loudmouth
02-02-2004 7:37 PM


You do realize that you evolutionist's are very illiterate about evidence for creationism.
Did you read what that minister said?

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JonF
Member (Idle past 197 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 49 of 93 (82306)
02-02-2004 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Christian7
02-02-2004 7:46 PM


You do realize that you evolutionist's are very illiterate about evidence for creationism.
It seems more likely that you do not understand what evidence means.
Did you read what that minister said?
Yes. Interesting sermon. No evidence or mention of evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Christian7, posted 02-02-2004 7:46 PM Christian7 has not replied

  
Christian7
Member (Idle past 278 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 50 of 93 (82307)
02-02-2004 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Christian7
02-02-2004 7:46 PM


I found this on a website: (I GIVE TOTAL CREDIT TO THIS SITE (DONT ARREST ME FOR NO COPYRIGHT LAWS))
Problems with whatever the heck darwin was thinking!-------------------------------------------------------------------
The Problem of the Obvious
The question of evolution versus creation is fundamentally about this question: Is life the result of random chance, or is life the result of specific intelligent design for a purpose, by a magnificent Creator?
On a very elementary level, one is faced with the obviousthat there at least appears to be intelligent design. Order and design surround us. Famous evolutionist Richard Dawkins in his 1986 book The Blind Watchmaker acknowledges this problem when he admits, "Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose." (7, pg. 76)
When looking at rocks near the bank of a stream one can obviously tell the difference between a rock that has been randomly formed by the erosion of sand and water, and an arrowhead. One is the product of natural processes; the other is the product of intelligent design.
If one asks an evolutionist if the watch he is wearing created itself, he will say no. Such a conclusion is obvious. But biological systems are vastly more complex than a watch. It should be equally obvious that a hand, or an eye, or even an amoeba must be designed.
Likewise, when one sees a bird's nest, everyone naturally assumes that there is a bird that built it. The existence of a computer demands a computer designer. Creation demands a creator.
The Problem of Reverse Complexity
Biochemist Michael Behe wrote a book in 1996 entitled Darwin's Black Box, The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution. The book is a landmark work on the issue of evolution.
In the book, Behe explains that the theory of evolution was formulated on an assumption that life was built on levels from simple to complex. That is, the earliest forms of life were simple, and more and more complexity was added as the evolutionary process continued. Further, this assumption said that modern cellular life is simple, and that complex beings were merely combinations of simple cells. But since the invention of electron microscopes in the 1950s, we have been able to look into the cell and see that this assumption, which is fundamental to evolution, is incorrect.
A single simple cell contains as much data as all the individual letters in the world's largest librarythat's about a trillion bits of information. (10, pg. 110) We are overwhelmed and awed at chemical coding devices, nucleotides, genomes, neural transmitters, ribosomes, and the other discoveries, which demonstrate the magnificence of the cell. Life at the microbiological level is incredibly complex.
The Problem of Irreducibly Complex Systems
Behe further explains that life at the cellular level is not merely complex, but "irreducibly complex." He explains the idea this way. Take a mousetrap. The trap is actually made up of several parts that must function togethera platform, a bait catch, a spring, a hammer, and a holding bar. Each component is necessary for the trap to work. But all of these parts must be present in the correct way, at the correct strength, at the same time, etc., for the trap to function. A partially complete mousetrap is not partially workableit is not workable at all.
All parts of a complex system would have to have developed simultaneously. The problem for evolution is this, the theory is based on minute independent mutations which do not have a designed plan. But the very existence of complex systems, with dependent parts, severely challenges the theory. Could independent, random activity produce irreducibly complex systems?
In his book, Behe details the chemistry of several complex organic systems, including blood clotting, cilia, flagella, and immune systems. Each system is delicately interrelated and complex. So complex, in fact, that given our modern knowledge of biochemistry, evolution becomes intellectually untenable, if not impossible.
A flagellum, for example, consists of numerous specialized and interrelated parts, working together as a tiny machine. Such molecular machines defy a Darwinian explanation. Another illustration given by Behe is an animal trap found in the woods. The trap consists of a small tree bent down to form a spring mechanism. At the top end of the tree is a rope to catch the prey. And there is a release mechanism allowing the trap to spring when an animal sets foot in it. If you see such a trap in the woods, you could only conclude that it was intelligently designed, not a result of accidental processes.
Or consider the human brain. The total number of connections in the human brain is around a thousand million. Our three pound brain can think, plan, and contemplate the mysteries of the universe. Its memory can retrieve a name that has been stored for 50 years. How could the human brain have been created by lifeless matter without the aid of any kind of supernatural intelligence? One is free to believe what he wants, but we submit that neither common sense nor analysis supports the idea that complex living systems created themselves from nothing by chance.
The Problem of Survivability of Intermediates
A major reason irreducibly complex systems create such a challenge for evolution is the problem of survivability of intermediate life forms. Evolution says that by a process of minute changes over very long periods of time, organisms were built up. But evolution requires that organisms with each minute change survive, that is, the change must have survival value. Darwin himself stated: "Natural selection can act only by the preservation and accumulation of infinitesimally small inherited modifications, each profitable to the preserved being."
Looking at each component of the mousetrap example, one can understand that there is no survival value of each individual component apart from the complete system. Further, for the system to function, all components must be there together. If even one is missing, or is not an adequate size and shape, the organism won't work. If the mousetrap were a living system, to have evolved, each component as it developed would have had to have "waited" patiently on the development of the other components. But without a master plan, a "design" if you will, they would not have waitedthey would have died.
In the case of a living organism, the "intermediate" components most likely would have been detrimental to survival. For example, in blood clotting, the mechanism is extremely delicate. Too much clotting or too little clotting and the organism dies. An intermediate system with either too much or too little clotting would not have the necessary survival value to carry on the "experiment" to try to find the precise combination. The evolutionary process would have aborted.
The concept of irreducible complexity is easily understood in large systems. Evolutionists suggest, for example, that an animal's forelimbs evolved into wings. But that process would have had intermediate life forms that became awkward for climbing or grasping long before they became useful for gliding, thus placing the hypothetical intermediate creature at a serious disadvantage, not at an advantage for survival.
Gary Parker, a biologist (and former evolutionist), uses the example of a woodpecker. (14, pgs. 56-61) He explains that a woodpecker needs a combination of adaptationsa heavy-duty skull, a tough bill, shock absorbing tissues, a long sticky tongue, and nerve and muscle coordination. The bird might have all of the other features, but without the heavyduty skull, for example, it's skull would collapse when it hammers wood with the tremendous force that it uses. There would be no survival value of the intermediate form of woodpecker, so no offspring would be produced to continue the process of evolution to a "completed" woodpecker.
If you have ever examined a model of a human knee in a doctor's office, you must be impressed with the combination of cartilage, muscle, ligaments, and bone that in a precise combination allow the knee to work. If just one ligament was too weak, the whole thing would fail, and the survivability of the animal would be in question.
For another example, the human eye is so complex that Darwin himself, even with his limited knowledge of chemistry, saw the human eye as an enormous problem for his theory. The eye is capable of focusing at various distances and of controlling the amount of light it receives from total darkness to bright sunlight while delivering images in living color. A sophisticated camera could only exist as a result of intelligent designers and builders. Surely we must concede the same of an even more complex eye.
Evolutionist F. Hitching was still pondering in a 1982 book entitled The Neck of the Giraffe, "Is it really plausible that thousands upon thousands of lucky chance mutations happened coincidentally so that the lens and the retina, which cannot work without each other, evolved in synchrony? What survival value can there be in an eye that doesn't see?" (1, pgs. 36-39) And these men didn't even consider in their statements the chemical complexity of the eye. It takes Behe two pages in his book just to describe the biochemistry of vision. (1, pgs. 18-22)
Molecular biologist Michael Denton makes an analogy with language. He explains that in sentence structure, it quickly becomes obvious that there are limits in getting from one sentence that makes sense to another by changing one letter at a time. For example, how can one get from "He sat on the mat" to "He stood on the mat"? To do so, you would have to go through four changes, each of which would make no sense. (The first change might be "He stt on the mat.")
While complex systems can undergo a certain limited degree of functional change, there is invariably a limit. "He sat on the mat" can get to "He sat on the cat" in one step, but it cannot get to "He stood on the mat" in single steps required by evolution. (2, pgs. 87-91)
The Problem of the Missing Models
Behe challenges the scientific community for its lack of mechanistic models for evolution. He says that no models have been built to explain the details of the evolution of specific systems.
For example, he points out that in the past several decades, probably ten thousand papers have been published on cilia. Yet not a single credible paper has even attempted to guess at an evolutionary mechanism for the system. The literature of evolutionary biology is typically little more than fuzzy word pictures. For example, he says all that scientists can come up with when describing blood clotting is that the tissue factor "appears," fibrinogen is "born," antiplasmin "arises," a cross-linking protein "is unleashed," and so forth. (1, pgs. 67-69, 93) He flatly states that, "The fact is, no one on earth has the vaguest idea how the coagulation came to be." (1, pg. 97)
Behe further exclaims that "In fact, none of the papers published in JME [the Journal of Molecular Evolution] over the entire course of its life as a journal has ever proposed a detailed model by which a complex biochemical system might have been produced in a gradual, step-by-step Darwinian fashion... The very fact that none of these problems is even addressed, let alone solved, is a very strong indication that Darwinism is an inadequate framework for understanding the origin of complex biochemical systems." (1, pg. 176) He makes the quite dramatic claim that, "There has never been a meeting, or a book, or a paper on details of the evolution of complex biochemical systems." (1, pg. 179)
In a 1997 radio interview, Behe said that his public challenges to the scientific world to come up with specific models have been unmet, confirming that none exist! Even the nonscientist must begin to ask, "Is the theory of evolution scientific or is it something else?"
The Problem of First Life
The failure of scientists to produce life in the test tube is notable. After a flurry of excitement of the possibility in the 1960s, the following quote expresses the current state of affairs. It was written by Klaus Dose, a prominent biochemist working in the field:
"More than 30 years of experimentation on the origin of life in the fields of chemical and molecular evolution have led to a better perception of the immensity of the problem of the origin of life on Earth rather than to its solution. At present all discussions on principal theories and experiments in the field either end in stalemate or in a confession of ignorance." (1, pg. 168) Modern science has confirmed the principle of biogenesis, that life only comes from life.
Concerning the prebiotic soup from which life supposedly arose, there is no reason to believe that it even existed or that life has a tendency to emerge even when the right chemicals are present. Modern chemistry now indicates that, in fact, organic compounds produced on the early earth would be subject to chemical reactions making them unsuitable for constructing life. As such, the scientific evidence continues to mount against evolution. (5, pgs. 102-112; 14, pgs. 17-38; and 2, pgs. 249-273)
But the question must be asked, if scientists actually do produce life in the lab, would that prove evolution or would it prove the importance of intelligent interference? We submit that it would merely demonstrate the latter. For now, the world waits for evolutionists to show us some evidence for their theory.
The Problem of Deleterious Mutations
Evolution relies heavily on mutation to produce improvements in organisms through random chance. But, the evidence doesn't support this. Instead of improvements, mutations tend to show deterioration. Indeed, 99.99 percent of mutations are harmful, even lethal. As explained by Parker in his book (14, pgs. 95-104), almost every mutation we know is identified by the disease or abnormality it causes, not its benefits. For example, in humans hemophilia is a mutation of a clotting factor. Tay-Sach's Disease is apparently a mutation in the gene for producing an enzyme crucial to brain function.
Indeed, human beings are subject to some 3,500 mutational disorders. The reason they don't show up more often is that we have two sets of genes, and the good set tends to cover up the bad set.
About the only example ever given of a positive mutation is sickle-cell anemia. People carrying sickle-cell hemoglobin are resistant to malaria. But sickle-cell anemia is a disease; it kills people. Further, the mutation does not produce genetic information that leads to a new species. It is thus an inadequate example to support evolutionary theory.
Bad mutations are 1,000 times more prevalent than good ones. To believe that mutations are the mechanism for evolution is comparable to saying that standing in front of an x-ray machine long enough will lead to positive health benefits. Or, since mutations are just mistakes, you could say evolution is comparable to a really bad typist who is re-typing a dime romance novel, and produces a Shakespearean play by chance. It is no more likely that random changes (from whatever cause) in genetic information will benefit an organism, than random changes in a TV's circuitry will make a better TV.
Pierre Grasse, considered the "dean of French zoologists," said that mutations are "merely hereditary fluctuations around a median position; a swing to the right, a swing to the left, but no final evolutionary effect." Further, he says, mutations are not complementary, nor are they cumulative." That is, they don't add up to anything. While Grasse is still looking for a mechanism for evolution, he admits that mutationselection cannot be it. (14, pgs. 104-110)
Evolution is about how new organisms developed via a greater quantity and quality of genetic information. We suggest that the notion that mutations could even theoretically produce a greater quantity and quality of genetic information approaches the level of absurdity.
Lastly, it can be argued that the existence of mutations presupposes creation. Mutations are only changes in genes that already exist. Mutation, therefore, is a result, not a cause.
As explained by Phillip Johnson, "The only reason to believe that mutations of the kind and quantity needed for blind watchmaker evolution to actually occur is that the theory requires them." (7, pgs. 80-81)
The Problem of Mathematical Improbability
Many mathematicians have looked at probability science for help with evolution. Could it have occurred by chance?
Below are some numbers. To illustrate the magnitude of these numbers, for the sake of comparison, be aware that the number of electrons in the universe is believed to be 1080.
Mathematician William Dembski calculated that if the probability of something occurring is less than one in 10150, it has no possibility of happening by chance at any time by any conceivable process throughout all of cosmic history. He further estimates that the probability of evolving the first cell is no better than one in 104,478,146. (Source: Impact magazine, November 1999)
In regard to the universe occurring by chance, researcher Hugh Ross explains that there are actually two sets of odds that interrelate: first, the unique characteristics that must be fashioned to explain the earth's capacity to support life, and second, that life could arise even on a suitably configured planet by random chance. He calculates the odds for life as remote as 1 in 10100,000,000,000. (Source: Facts and Faith magazine, Second Quarter 1998)
Yet some say that, well, given enough time, evolution could occur. But it would be like saying that putting the parts to a computer in a washing machine, and given enough time that they will assemble themselves into a functioning computer. It won't happenno matter how much time.
Mathematician/astronomer Fred Hoyle put it this way. He said that the probability of evolution creating the living world by chance is like believing that "...a tornado sweeping through a junk yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein." (See Evolution from Space, Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wickramasingne, J.M. Dent & Sons, 1981).
Denton concludes that probability science comes "very close to a formal disproof of the whole Darwinian paradigm of nature. By what strange capacity do living organisms defy the laws of chance which are apparently obeyed by all analogous complex systems?" (2, pg. 316)
Evolutionists have been faced with such figures for many years. If they could come up with a number within the realm of possibility, they would be crowing about it. But they have not been able to do so. Life was designed; it did not evolve. The correctness of this conclusion is the inverse of the probability that eliminated evolution, that is, 104,478,296 to one.
There is one thing we can say further. Given the probabilities against evolution, if evolution did occur, it would constitute a miracleconvincing proof of God's existence.
The Problem of Cosmology
Cosmology is the study of the principles of the universe. The laws of physics, assuming no outside interference by God, predict a uniform and homogenous universe. This is based on the uniformity of the gas that the evolutionists believe originally filled the universe. But instead of uniformity, the universe is lumpy, with areas of emptiness and areas with galaxies. In fact, the mere existence of galaxies, stars, and planets is a great puzzle for evolutionists. (3, pg. 155)
There are numerous evidences of apparent fine-tuning of the universe that suggest intelligent design. Hugh Ross (in the Moreland book from the resource list) lists over fifty scientific laws and parameters that are so tightly precise that without them life could not exist. These include: nuclear force constant, electromagnetic force constant, polarity of the water molecule, ratio of protons to electrons, velocity of light, oxygen to nitrogen ratio in the earth's atmosphere, star color, etc. (11, pgs. 160-168) For example, it has become clear that the odds of a life-sustaining universe resulting from the (alleged) Big Bang are minute. If the expansion rate after the Big Bang had been one part in a hundred thousand million million weaker, the universe would have collapsed. But if it had been one part in a million stronger, the universe would have expanded too rapidly for stars to form. The Bible says that "The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth his handiwork" (Psalm 19:1). God reveals himself to us in such clear and convincing ways through the things He has made, that the Bible further says that the person who can't see it is without excuse. He is willfully blind. Because of the philosophical position he holds he is seeing what he wants to see and closing his eyes to the rest (Romans 1).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Christian7, posted 02-02-2004 7:46 PM Christian7 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Christian7, posted 02-02-2004 7:55 PM Christian7 has replied
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5937 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 51 of 93 (82308)
02-02-2004 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Christian7
02-02-2004 7:46 PM


Guidosoft
You do realize that you evolutionist's are very illiterate about evidence for creationism
Really? Care to enlighten us poor dumb souls?I mean it is one thing to make a statement such as this it is quite another to bring forth the evidence that you feel is missing from our education.Please have the courtesy to educate the people who are in need of this 'evidence'

'Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not his own facts.'
(Daniel Patrick Moynihan)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Christian7, posted 02-02-2004 7:46 PM Christian7 has not replied

  
Christian7
Member (Idle past 278 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 52 of 93 (82309)
02-02-2004 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Christian7
02-02-2004 7:51 PM


I no what evidence means and I no that I have not presented any good evidence before you but this was not my original intention. If you realy would like evidence I will give it to you but do understand that not everything I write is intended as sold evidence but therotical statements based on evidenced. For example if I say that the sky is green. I have not supplied evidence but a theory. If I explained why then it would be evidence.
BTW, I know it's blue. Just in case you wanted to get me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Christian7, posted 02-02-2004 7:51 PM Christian7 has replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 53 of 93 (82310)
02-02-2004 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Christian7
02-02-2004 6:48 PM


Are you ever going to reply in the topic I started for you?
[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 02-02-2004]

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Christian7
Member (Idle past 278 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 54 of 93 (82311)
02-02-2004 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Christian7
02-02-2004 7:55 PM


Educate yourselfes! Go back to kindagarden(NO OFFENSE, JUST FELT LIKE SAYING IT)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Christian7, posted 02-02-2004 7:55 PM Christian7 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 93 (82312)
02-02-2004 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Christian7
02-02-2004 7:51 PM


Guido,
This thread is about galactic tidal tails. I would love to discuss the points you bring up but it would be more appropriate if these points each had their own thread. I encourage you to start a thread on a specific issue/s, but be prepared, most of what you posted has been beaten to death here so people are going to come out guns blazing. Instead of just cutting a pasting you might want to write something original, put some of your own flavor into it.

This message is a reply to:
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JonF
Member (Idle past 197 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 56 of 93 (82313)
02-02-2004 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Christian7
02-02-2004 6:48 PM


Well, what about the mountans that could not have possibly been formed as a result of techonic plates. There in the wrong place.
Such as what mountains?
May I also point out that water ages thing to such an exageratable degree that it could appear millions of years old.
Absolutely false. Water could leach elements out of rocks, but that would not make a young rock appear old to modern dating methods. No effect of water would make a young rock appear old to modern dating methods.
Plus water is required to make fossils
Absolutely false. For example, fossils have been found in volcanic ash deposits.
Tell me if i am outdated with this information and I through some of the latest creationist evedince at your face(Don't take it personaly.).
You're not outdated, just plain wrong; the stuff you are spouting was never believed to be true. Feel free to bring up the latest so-called "creationist evidence" and we won't take it personally. Don't take it personally when you find out that we are far more familiar with the so-called "creationist evidence" than you are, and when your so-called "latest creationist evidence" turns out to be antique and long-debunked.

This message is a reply to:
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Christian7
Member (Idle past 278 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 57 of 93 (82314)
02-02-2004 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Christian7
02-02-2004 7:57 PM


Yo can I get like some christians in this board with me cause I am trying to erase the doughts of your minds but you aint given any support here. PLus I am busy.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 93 (82315)
02-02-2004 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Christian7
02-02-2004 7:57 PM


quote:
Educate yourselfes! Go back to kindagarden(NO OFFENSE, JUST FELT LIKE SAYING IT)
Couldn't help it. It is not "yourselFes" but "yourselVes". But that was in third grade, so I'll let it slide this time .
PS for Admin: Can we get irony meters?

This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1496 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 59 of 93 (82317)
02-02-2004 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Christian7
02-02-2004 8:01 PM


Yo can I get like some christians in this board with me
There's plenty on the board - a lot of them evolutionists - but none of them are going to rush to your aid unless you start doing two things:
1) Post to appropriate topics.
2) Support your statements with evidence.
Since you're not appearing to do either they're not likely to embarass themselves by jumping to your defense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Christian7, posted 02-02-2004 8:01 PM Christian7 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Christian7, posted 02-02-2004 8:12 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Christian7
Member (Idle past 278 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 60 of 93 (82324)
02-02-2004 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by crashfrog
02-02-2004 8:04 PM


If they are bible believing christians I am sure they would!
The bible said that if some one said "If your a chrisitan I am gona shoot you." We should reply yes.
This is very simple compared to putting your life on the line for christ don't you think?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by crashfrog, posted 02-02-2004 8:04 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by crashfrog, posted 02-02-2004 8:16 PM Christian7 has not replied
 Message 62 by NosyNed, posted 02-02-2004 8:17 PM Christian7 has replied

  
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