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Author Topic:   Our perfect place in the heavens..
Cryptic
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 53 (37965)
04-25-2003 2:43 AM


The universe is a series of mathimatical equations. We still have math formuals to find. But the simplest of them could be used to solve it all. I don't think we'll be figuring this out for quite some time. Also If your going to talk about MegaHAL's, I suggest you check out http://www.theories.com/ and take a look around. One of my close friends helped out on this project. Yu is a conversational computer. When he asks you a question, ask that same question back and he'll give you the answer to it.

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by John, posted 04-25-2003 8:56 AM Cryptic has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 53 (37995)
04-25-2003 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Cryptic
04-25-2003 2:43 AM


quote:
The universe is a series of mathimatical equations.
Do you mean this literally?
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No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Cryptic, posted 04-25-2003 2:43 AM Cryptic has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by crashfrog, posted 04-25-2003 12:39 PM John has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1546 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 48 of 53 (38021)
04-25-2003 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by John
04-25-2003 8:56 AM


I think he's confusing the model with the reality.
Math may describe the universe we observe, but I don't think that means that the universe itself has some kind of underlying mathematical structure. Math is just a tool and doesn't exist outside of our heads. It's just another kind of language.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by John, posted 04-25-2003 8:56 AM John has replied

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 Message 49 by John, posted 04-25-2003 12:56 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 53 (38024)
04-25-2003 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by crashfrog
04-25-2003 12:39 PM


quote:
I think he's confusing the model with the reality.
I'm hoping so, but visions of pythagoreans dance in my head.
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by crashfrog, posted 04-25-2003 12:39 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Cryptic
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 53 (38030)
04-25-2003 2:41 PM


Yes, I did mean that literally. And I am a girl. Math is an international and universal language.

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by crashfrog, posted 04-25-2003 2:58 PM Cryptic has not replied
 Message 52 by John, posted 04-25-2003 4:13 PM Cryptic has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1546 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 51 of 53 (38033)
04-25-2003 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Cryptic
04-25-2003 2:41 PM


Yes, I did mean that literally. And I am a girl. Math is an international and universal language.
Sorry for the assumption. I try to watch for sexist language but it creeps in nonetheless.
As for math, the universal language... I don't know about that. A number of cultures never developed math, simply because their languages have no numbers. As I recall australian aboriginals only have the numbers "one" and "many".
As Godel proved, all math is ultimately number theory. Obviously you have to have numbers in order to have math. The utility of numbers is undisputed, but there's no reason to assume numbers are a fundamental constraint on reality or have any existence beyond our culture.
Math, as an axiomatic system, is simply a game of symbol shuffling according to transformational rules. Given number theory you could reconstruct all math from a set of simple rules about the relationships of certain symbols. There's nothing about those symbols that require that they have a real-world referent. I.e. numbers behave the same whether or not they're counting something.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Cryptic, posted 04-25-2003 2:41 PM Cryptic has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Gzus, posted 04-26-2003 8:25 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 53 (38045)
04-25-2003 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Cryptic
04-25-2003 2:41 PM


You feel that the universe IS equation, much as someone might say that a baseball bat IS wood? You do not mean that math is a description, but that it is an actual real metaphysical thing?
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No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Cryptic, posted 04-25-2003 2:41 PM Cryptic has not replied

  
Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 53 (38113)
04-26-2003 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by crashfrog
04-25-2003 2:58 PM


Just because it seems to be possible [from our perspective] to describe the universe accurately in a mathematical way, doesn't neccesarily mean that the universe is itself a mathematical entity in any way. For all we know, the universe may be governed by rules [if any] that are completely illogical and random but give the illusion of structure and mathematical order, we simply can never know.
[Sorry Crashfrog, this message was meant for Cryptic]
[This message has been edited by Gzus, 04-26-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by crashfrog, posted 04-25-2003 2:58 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
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