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Author Topic:   Our perfect place in the heavens..
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Message 31 of 53 (27950)
12-26-2002 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Brad McFall
12-26-2002 6:18 PM

Have any of you heard of any approach that in its aspects is an amalgam of both the Creationist view and the evolutionistic viewpoints? I have thought of this for many years. There was a query on ,'what do plate tectonics, and orbits and trajectories have to do with it?" Much! in fact. If you stopped, and thought about how the lunar gravitational pull affects the tides, imagine utilizing the movement of plate tectonics to map the gravitational effects upon this earth by the other bodies in the solar system and beyond. Trajectories and orbits of heavy mass do correlate to plate movement, on a large scale. These movements are infitesmal on the average, but they can be measured. The relevance is that all things work together in the big picture. The mystical approach to the ancient texts of the Bible, can reveal all of these things. The Bible is not a unidimensional, literal work of art; it is filled with metaphor, hyperbole, and yes, it is imbued with ancient codes. These codes are too many to bring to bear on this thread, but I will state emphatically, that the first 6 days, were not man's 24hr. days. Time is a concept of men, its usage in the text is not always literal, at times it is merely symbolic. The Big bang? It happened during the morning of Gods'(?) first day in creating THIS world. It never states that there were no other worlds created, nor that there won't be others. Before Light, there was absolute nothingness. Now I have a question for all of you who argue against the Physics within the scriptures, or just don't understand their way of communing these things:
"In the beginning (B'reshis) created (Bara) God/The Powers (Elohim) (eth) The Heavens (Hashomayim) and the earth (V'Haaretz)...and the earth was void and without form.." Genesis/(B'reshis) 1:1 (Hebrew in parenthesis)
My Question: "How can you create something and yet it still not have any form?" If you can answer that, you are on the path to enlightenment and truth.
The number 40 is also a symbolic number, if you have a clue to this maybe there are a few who know my position in these matters. Shalom Alechem (It was a great big fizzle by the way, and not a bang, one that is still fizzling; and time is an arbitrary concept depending on the observer and the observed) So, what was there before that? Oh my god! I guess I've done it again. Sorry folks,I gotta go change my britches.
If not us,who; and if not now,when?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Brad McFall, posted 12-26-2002 6:18 PM Brad McFall has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Brad McFall, posted 12-28-2002 9:04 PM Kolyahu has replied

Inactive Member

Message 36 of 53 (28074)
12-29-2002 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Brad McFall
12-28-2002 9:04 PM

I was simply stating that altough there is what you and I consider life on this planet, and it is in part due to the incredible make up of it; it is still far from perfect. If we gauge perfection in the same way, I do not know. If it can happen here it can happen elsewhere, unless this was the first such planet with the distinction of having life, life in the terms we, humans know. I'm simply stating that the visible reality is only part of the cosmos. We are becoming more and more aware of this. The way to create something and it still have no form, is to imagine it or plan it out. It has been created in the mind, but until one has the materials and equipment it will have no form. If you think that this world is perfect in its position and physical make up, I could argue that because of its imperfections there is life on it. So, where would that lead? Perhaps we are the imperfection, and life as we understand it, is not what was supposed to be. There are alot of suppositions we could analyze. For the most part, I am convinced that in size comparison, the life on this 25,000 mi. sphereoid called Earth, is as the dust of the earth. In that case by metaphor, man was formed from the life on the suface of this planet; and thereby the scripture at Genesis means the same thing as evolution.
Now, with that said, other worlds can mean ,'worlds within' as much as the material reality. An atom is a solar system in a small scale. So, is this a perfect world? Is it situated possibly because a large mass flyby left it reeling and some of the matter from it sprinkled DNA substraight throughout the atmosphere into a cycle that began because of the changes in apogee and perigee? Sh-t happens. What would our life cycle become on this planet if there was an interruption in the decay mechanisms? You see the venture becomes an endless one. Shalom

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Brad McFall, posted 12-28-2002 9:04 PM Brad McFall has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Brad McFall, posted 01-04-2003 11:05 PM Kolyahu has replied

Inactive Member

Message 38 of 53 (28460)
01-05-2003 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Brad McFall
01-04-2003 11:05 PM

I find it simply strange that once an observation is made by a human mind, that mind then forms a supposition upon the observation; to which an entire science can be founded upon. Bohr's atom is an example of my thesis that his envisionment actually lead to the science we now call 'nuclear physics'. Yet, an atom is not as simplified as Bohr's model. We as yet have been unable to stop- motion -image a single electron. We are getting closer to that, but it is as yet beyond our abilities. So, what will we actually see if we succeed? Will it be exactly as it was envisioned? If so, Perhaps the observer who place his ideas upon it's substance, actually created the material by his envisionment.
Oiy Vey! What am I sayink? I am saying that before Bohr's concept there were others, yet science went with Bohr's conceptions and thereby created the entire working knowledge of atomics by that said same idea. The idea preceeded the science, yet the idea is now considered reality. Did Bohr creat the atom? Yes, I would suggest that by his envisionment and the mutual acceptance of the premise, Bohr's idea became a physical truth.
This is in fact part of the grand theory of relativity, when the observer becomes part of the observation relative to infinity.
The Biblical exegesis (through ancient kabbalah/mysticisms) renders the same principle. We were created in the image of The powers (Elohim) acting in one accord. They/it spoke this reality into existence ex nilo (from nothingness/ chaos theory), in this image, man also is a creator. Forming a thought then putting it to utterance. Once spoken and the powers (Other people, their mindsets and their resulting actions) act upon those words, the word he spoke becomes a truth and as time is a forward measurement in this curvature, his word does become a reality.
My quest-ing on this is not something easily grasped. Had Mr. Bohr envisioned the sub structures differently, would not our nuclear sciences be in a different abstaction than they are? Of course they would. Therefore Bohr's envisionment has become the reality by our agreement to it. I would suggest looking at the nothingness that is the 99% of our reality for the greater problem solving, than by looking at the 1% which is matter.
Okay, I am saying that God's days are not human days. I am saying that the account in Genesis is not so much about the particulars, but is a brief about the order in which things developed. When it says'" and God said,'Let there be Light." It is not talking about the spectrum of what man knows of as light in the English sense. It is talking about Radiant energy of all wavelengths, even that which man has no knowledge of, the energies that are beyond Plank's constant in velocity, etc. (my basis for this assumption:Equal and opposite reactions.) Do I say that there is no God? Of course not, I've just proven there is a Creative force of unity. The great I am, just is. By the acceptance of an ancient envisionment, although in a deeper way than any institutionalized religion, the concept became reality. The concept was there before mankind was, so therefore there is a God, it is not what any of us can even imagine it to be, hence a prohibition against idolatry to remind us of our minor part in the scheme of things. Yet, we are like Him/It, in that we too can create by use of imagination and common concensus, this is the secret to how the sea was parted for Moses and Israel, They agreed to a reality that was beyond imagination to capture, the nothingness that is thru all and in all, the 99% of reality that man doesn't account for. May YHVH the God of Israel, the Father in heaven, bless you with His Light. To Life! my friend, and Shalom

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Brad McFall, posted 01-04-2003 11:05 PM Brad McFall has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Brad McFall, posted 01-05-2003 11:48 PM Kolyahu has not replied

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