this is the only one I have trouble with............

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time is infinite.

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And you know this how?

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and the time before the universe happened is also infinite.

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hmmm... a fellow named Einstein realized, about 80 years ago, that time is a component of the universe, not a thing within which the universe exists. He called this concept space-time. Think of a cube. It has height, width and length-- id. three dimensions. Now add a fourth dimension to the cube. That fourth dimension is time and the 4D cube is spcetime. Time begins and ends with space.

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Chaos theory say's that if you do the sum 1+1 enough times there will come a time when 1+1 WILL = 3

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Chaos theory does not 'say' this. Feel free to prove me wrong.

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but chances are its gonna be at least 60% 40% after 10 flips

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So? It could be 100% after ten flips. It could be 10% after ten flips. Ten flips isn't much of a sample size. Try a hundred flips. Try a hundred-thousand. If there is a true 50/50 chance then you'll get damn close to 50%. If you DON'T get 50% then your claim that the odds are 50/50 is wrong. This is how probabilities are defined.

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everything must come from nothing, or rather...before you can have something...you have to have nothing...simple as....

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Playing fast and loose with the definitions aren't you?------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

The coin thing reminds me of that Statistics 101 question:You toss a coin ten times and it comes up heads all ten times. Is the eleventh toss more likely to be:1) A head.
2) A tail.
3) 50/50 chance of heads or tails.(Answer Below)-NeilAnswer: 1) A head.[This message has been edited by NeilUnreal, 05-19-2003]

ok i havnt figured out where the "quote" button is on this site so just to let you know im aiming this one at johnyhow do i know time is infinite?ok i'll try to explain (i normally need to be mildly drunk to explain this one)
1. the universe had a begining...because you cant have something without having nothing first.
2. do not think of time as woven into the fabric of space...you can think of it as a 4th dimention but you must first realise the universe in one dimention and then time on 2 dimentions. yes 2 dimentions...back-forwards.....and of course sideway's.
3. just like the unvierse is as big as you measure it...so is time. (in a way) see as far as we know time could stop and pause for a million years every second, we would be none the wiser....
think of reality as a paice of music....the notes are the time that we can sence, feel, and understand....but when there is a rest...there is no note (no time in this metaphor) but there is no time- for a spcific length of time.now pull back....and imagine the standing outside the concert hall waiting for your mates to arive so you can all go in together as simply more rests...but at the begining of the piece of music.... you could put as many rests at the begining of this peice of music as you want...and if you consider the universe as one peice of music....you can put an infinite amount of rests before the first note...and it wouldnt affect the music....because there is no music yet...only silence..an eternal oneyes i simplified chaos theory quite a bit....so sue me.as for the coin flip....well chances are that after 100 flips you'll get a bell curve and the diferances are likely to be 49% 51%.
statistacialy the more flips you do the closer you will get to bang on 50 50and the nothing before something...well thats a philisophical point im in no way getting into now....lets just stick with time theoryBread

The "reply w/quote" button was removed a few months ago because of widespread abuse. You can still quote, but you have to do so manually. Place the text you want quoted between one of the two types of UBB quote, eg, this: Becomes this:

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When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

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And this other type of quote: Becomes this: --Percy

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ok i havnt figured out where the "quote" button is on this site

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... at the bottom of every message. Don't go to the bottom of the page, just look below the message to which you wish to reply.

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ok i'll try to explain (i normally need to be mildly drunk to explain this one)

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That does explain quite a bit.

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1. the universe had a begining...because you cant have something without having nothing first.

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'k.... Your 'because' clause is just assumption, but the idea that the universe had a beginning appears to be correct.

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2. do not think of time as woven into the fabric of space...

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Why not? This conception works miraculously and has for over 80 years.

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you can think of it as a 4th dimention but you must first realise the universe in one dimention and then time on 2 dimentions.

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I count three dimensions here. Maybe your want to rethink this.

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yes 2 dimentions...back-forwards

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That is only one dimension. Two directions on a line implies only one line.

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and of course sideway's.

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Which blows the idea that time is in two dimensions, even if your wierd concept of up and down being different dimensions were true.

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3. just like the unvierse is as big as you measure it...so is time.

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Measuring it determines its size?

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(in a way) see as far as we know time could stop and pause for a million years every second

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If time paused, how could a million years pass? See, 'years' measures a unit of time.

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there is no note (no time in this metaphor) but there is no time- for a spcific length of time.

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ummm.... there is no time, there is no time. Time can't pass if there is no time.Sounds like you may be grappling with the idea that time comes in quanta. Ok, but you really need a better argument.

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yes i simplified chaos theory quite a bit....so sue me.

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Simplified? You didn't even get close.

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as for the coin flip....

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... which is utterly different from what you argued previously.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

Assuming the coin was not weighted in any way, and the testing was unbiased, the previous results would not affect the next flip. Therefore, the answer to your question would be 3) not 1).------------------
"Of course...we all create god in our own image" - Willard Decker, Star Trek: The Motion Picture

It's a trick question. The bigger question is, "If a coin lands heads-up every time for ten flips, is it reasonable to assume that it is an unweighted coin?" The answer is "probably not."Your answer is of course correct if you assume an unweighted coin. The original question very specifically doesn't assume this.In the real world, coins are sometimes weighted and tests are sometimes biased. If a coin lands heads-up every time in ten flips, it's more likely than not that something fishy is going on. Ergo, the correct answer is that the eleventh time will probably be heads again.

Sultan, Einstein's relativity states that space and time are one thing - spacetime. When two observers are in relative motion, they need not agree as to who is moving. What one sees as a space separation the other may see as a time separation between two events. This is the whole basis of the theory.
There is plenty of evidence supporting relativity. Do you have any evidence showing it to be wrong? If not, you are talking rubbish.
Mike.

again at john littleyou agree that the universe had a begining....so before it began...there was nothing...because if there WAS something around before it began...well then the begining, wouldnt be the begining.ok take the universe in 3 dimentional form...so only its spacial dimentions.....now compress that event into a one dimentional point...that sits neatly in the middle of a two dimentional plane...the plane is time.forwads backwards.....one dimention.....sideway's the second.
now we all can understand backwards and forwards in time right......
but what about sideway's....acording to einstien this would be teleportation....but i to be honest dont trust einstein on his time theory....they are not inter woven and conected.time is omnipresent, eternal, and is fully able to exist in its own right.
space on the other hand is a slave to time...moving through time at whatever rate it is....space cannot egsist without time....there fore if your in space....time and SPace may aswell be woven...but they are not....it is indeed all about relativity...remember what einstien said about the poeple living in the roundabout?oops
boss aproachingbye!Bread

So you're saying that space and time are separate entities, that time is the controlling variable, and that Einstein and modern physics are wrong? And you know this how?--Percy

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you agree that the universe had a begining....so before it began...there was nothing...because if there WAS something around before it began...well then the begining, wouldnt be the begining.

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And this is not a causal relationship. Your point?

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ok take the universe in 3 dimentional form...

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Why?This would be pre-Einstein cosmology, but with an extra dimension of time. Einstein pretty much buried this.

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forwads backwards.....one dimention.....sideway's the second.

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And the relevance is... ?

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time is omnipresent, eternal, and is fully able to exist in its own right.

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And you know this how?

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it is indeed all about relativity...

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You are indeed not about relativity.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

Crashfrog re. coin: bullseye!Part of the purpose of the example is to show how easy it is to let unsupported assumptions pass into statistical test design.-Neil[This message has been edited by NeilUnreal, 05-21-2003]

Actually physics has a problem getting a good grip on just what time is. However, Sultan's posts don't seem to be anything but unsubstantiated ravings. I can't see that they come from anywhere but his head on an ad hoc basis.If you have more than that Sultan, let us know. Thanks.

Just a little question for clarification: If time can exist without space, how could time be measured? We can all "see" time based on a couple of facts: things don't all happen together; and things can move.If we "view" time outside of space (which includes matter and energy) what would it be doing?------------------
"Of course...we all create god in our own image" - Willard Decker, Star Trek: The Motion Picture

Everything I know about statistics I learned from cartoons. Specifically, the Cartoon Guide to Statistics...