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Author | Topic: Laws of Conservation? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Huntard Member (Idle past 2295 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
grant111 writes:
So, you're saying that because mankind has acted as a creator, we can't be created? Thank you for clearing that up. A creator can't be created. That would defeat the whole concept. Anyway... I hunt for the truth What you can do in my country and get away with: Softdrugs? Legal!Legal drinking age? 16! Birth control (the pill)? Free! Gay marriage? Legal! Abortion? Legal! Euthanasia? Legal! Age of consent? 16 (14 if you have the parents permission)! Yep, only one way down for us!
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grant111 Junior Member (Idle past 5506 days) Posts: 5 Joined: |
Huntard writes: So, you're saying that because mankind has acted as a creator, we can't be created? Thank you for clearing that up. How has mankind acted as a creator? I think you are taking it out of context. If you are a caveman or anyone else lacking the technology to better observe your surroundings and you are wondering where you and all this stuff came from, you will then probably simply write it off as the workings of a higher power or a creator. I'm not sure how mankind can act as a creator. Your thoughts and ideas are intangible. They are not real, so in reality (from a nihilistic point of view) you are not creating anything, stuff is just moving around.
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Black Member (Idle past 5183 days) Posts: 77 Joined: |
Modulous,
inflation is about the inflation of space itself. Why does this make one confident that there is space outside the universe? Are you saying that space is inflating into space? That doesn't seem to make sense. If you take a balloon and blow it up it is going to inflate with a space inside and outside of it. So, inflation does support the idea of space outside of our universe. With that said, is our universe a isolated system in the same context as I asked before? Edited by Black, : edit
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2295 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
grant111 writes:
Oh I don't know, how about by creating stuff?
How has mankind acted as a creator? I think you are taking it out of context.
Out of context? You only posted one sentence, how can I take that out of context?
If you are a caveman or anyone else lacking the technology to better observe your surroundings and you are wondering where you and all this stuff came from, you will then probably simply write it off as the workings of a higher power or a creator.
More than likely, since you yourself are also a creator.
I'm not sure how mankind can act as a creator. Your thoughts and ideas are intangible. They are not real, so in reality (from a nihilistic point of view) you are not creating anything, stuff is just moving around.
So, we haven't created anything? What's this thing I'm typing on then? Thin air? I hunt for the truth
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2295 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Black writes:
No it doesn't, you misunderstood the analogy. There is no "outside of space". If you take a balloon and blow it up it is going to inflate with a space inside and outside of it. So, inflation does support the idea of space outside of our universe. I hunt for the truth
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onifre Member (Idle past 2950 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
So, inflation does support the idea of space outside of our universe. Black, the point you seem to be missing is that the universe IS space, therefore if there is "space outside the universe", it would be consider part of the universe and thus NOT "outside space". There can exist no space "outside" of existance, existance is space, period.
With that said, is our universe a isolated system in the same context as I asked before? The universe is an isolated system because there is nothing "outside" of it to interact with. It is self contained within the spacetime that IS the universe itself. "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5500 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
onfire writes: The universe is an isolated system because there is nothing "outside" of it to interact with. Hi onifre (what happened to onfire?), Do you see why an intelligent person could make an issue with your "isolated system"? It makes such a person ask: Isolated from what? It is self contained within the spacetime that IS the universe itself.
So then the universe is isolated from itself? Something isn't right here. I'm holding out for parallel universes that intersect dimensionally. But I can assure you that I'm a cosmological lightweight. Who isn't? Nobody even knows yet what dark matter is or how much of it is out there. I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2950 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Hi Fosdick,
It makes such a person ask: Isolated from what? I would then say that they missed the point. And try to reference them somewhere where a clearer explanation can be given, such as: Isolated System.
quote: The universe does not have any surroundings, therefore it is considered an isolated system in that sense.
So then the universe is isolated from itself? It is an isolated system, not isolated as in,
Those are seperate definitions. An isolated system is: "a physical system that does not interact with its surroundings.". Edited by onifre, : greetings "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5500 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
onifre writes:
I hate to be a real FosDICK here, but if you are saying that the universe is isolated from its surroundings, then you begging for the reply: WHAT SURROUNDINGS? (Friends of all parallel universes take heed: there is room for us in "the surroundings.") An isolated system is: "a physical system that does not interact with its surroundings." I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3643 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
If you take a balloon and blow it up it is going to inflate with a space inside and outside of it. So, inflation does support the idea of space outside of our universe. No, it does not. The balloon analogy certainly leads you (and many thousands before you) to think that there is an "outside", and maybe an "inside", but that is a problem with the analogy. Surprisingly, the Universe isn't actually a balloon...
With that said, is our universe a isolated system in the same context as I asked before? That all depends on what you are calling the "Universe"...
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lyx2no Member (Idle past 4716 days) Posts: 1277 From: A vast, undifferentiated plane. Joined: |
I hate to be a real FosDICK here, but if you are saying that the universe is isolated from its surroundings, then you begging for the reply: WHAT SURROUNDINGS? An isolated system is one that has no interaction with other then itself. In the case of the Universe there can be no interaction with other then itself because there is no other. Begging terminated. Genesis 2 17 But of the ponderosa pine, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou shinniest thereof thou shalt sorely learn of thy nakedness. 18 And we all live happily ever after.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2950 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
I hate to be a real FosDICK here, but if you are saying that the universe is isolated from its surroundings, You went from harping on the word outside to the word surroundings. The universe is considered an isolated system becauses the energy in the system remains consistent. There is no "outside/surroundings" so, nothing from the outside affects the system (and vice versa). Even though energy may be changing from one form to another, energy is not lost from the system. The total quantity of matter and energy available in the universe is a fixed amount and never any more or less, thus it is an isolated system.
WHAT SURROUNDINGS? (Friends of all parallel universes take heed: there is room for us in "the surroundings.") What would you call the space in between the parallel universes, the tiny microscopic space? "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5500 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
onifre writes:
What do you call the space between the first dimension and the second, or the third, or the fourth? And what makes you think there is space between parallel universes, anyway? "Space" is probably the biggest copout in science. It's like the word "truth." What would you call the space in between the parallel universes, the tiny microscopic space? btw: It's important to know that I don't know a goddamn thing about I'm talking about. That's why I post here, because nobody else does, either. I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2950 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
btw: It's important to know that I don't know a goddamn thing about I'm talking about. That's why I post here, because nobody else does, either. I can tell, by your actual attempt at answering the "space between parallel universes" question.
And what makes you think there is space between parallel universes, anyway? I don't - "the space between the parallel universes" - was as nonsensical as - "the space outside the universe". I was hoping that would be realized when you read the question. I guess I should have tried a different question. Sorry
"Space" is probably the biggest copout in science. It's like the word "truth." The only time space is misused is when the physics term spacetime is taken into a philosophical discussion. That is when musings such as "space outside the universe" gets thrown into the discussion. If a clear understanding of what is meant by spacetime is not known to someone, it can get confusing when trying to conceptualize "nothingness". Which is where I think questions like "outside the universe" come from, just a lack of knowledge on what spacetime is. "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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RCS Member (Idle past 2608 days) Posts: 48 From: Delhi, Delhi, India Joined: |
I have a basic understanding of the law of conservation of energy. It pretty much says that something can't come from nothing.
Good.
If you think back to the very beginning of things wouldn't there be a time where nothing existed?
Not if you think out box, sans bible redux.
If there was a time when nothing existed then how does anything exist today? There never was such a time.
Doesn't the "existence" of "things" today violate the law of conservation of energy, because in the beginning nothing existed? No.
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