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Author Topic:   Is space flat?
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 16 of 28 (390437)
03-20-2007 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by zcoder
03-20-2007 1:53 AM


zcoder writes:
I will ignore the insalt.
What insult?
like I said I don't have a degree in all this.
But I am feeling I was wrong to think I would
get answers in a polite manner to the correct
meaning of what creates gravity.
To be frank, I tried to be as polite as I possibly could in this situation. But there's no other way to say this except you're wrong and your logic gives out a negative pressure differential (a scientific term for suction).
the effect I described is in relation to the objects mass
so the greater the mass the more gravity it has, so it will
exert more gravitational force on other objects.
But you said that space was rushing away from the object therefore pushing the object into itself. My question was based on this assumption. If so-and-so amount of space is rushing away from object A and therefore exert B amount of force onto A, then shouldn't we expect so-and-so amount of space to exert the same amount of force (B) onto object C, which has less mass than object A?
Think about it this way. If we have a rocket that when lights up exert X amount of force on a ship with mass A that is attached to the ship. We then take the rocket and attach it to a smaller ship with mass B. Because it's the same rocket, it's still going to exert the same amount of force onto ship B. But because ship B has less mass, and F = m*a, the ship would accelerate faster than ship A.
But we don't see this kind of behavior with gravity even though it's the same amount of space that is rushing away from the different objects.

This message is a reply to:
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numnuts
Junior Member (Idle past 6091 days)
Posts: 19
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 17 of 28 (406820)
06-22-2007 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by zcoder
03-20-2007 4:31 AM


Zcoder
like my experience making world models in a computer, so can a creator and watch his creation turn out surpizes after surpizes.
but that too is just a theory.
I too have had this thought about a creator which inputs a program for the universe with random results unpredictable by him. If fact it would be the only God that would make any sense to me given the randomness around us. The problem with this type of logic (if it is logic) is that most people who beleive in God consider him/it all knowing and all powerful. Therefore just because you can't predict the outcome of your own computer program does not necessarily mean that an all knowing God could or would be able to do the same.
I guess this is very similar to the question of can God create a rock heavier than he can lift? In other words are his powers finite or infinite? Or are his powers simply made up

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Force
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 28 (423569)
09-22-2007 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Taz
03-19-2007 11:40 PM


Tazmanius Devilus,
Tazmandius Devilus writes:
Did you know that logic is actually a field of it's own in colleges? Did you know that you can major in logic? Did you know that you can get a Ph.D in logic and become a logician? In other words, logic ain't common sense. Allow me to show you why your common sense is far from logic.
Well,
You are not thinking logically. LOL.

Thanks
trossthree

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Taz, posted 03-19-2007 11:40 PM Taz has not replied

  
Force
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 28 (423571)
09-22-2007 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by numnuts
06-22-2007 3:03 PM


Re: Zcoder
numnuts,
quote:
I guess this is very similar to the question of can God create a rock heavier than he can lift? In other words are his powers finite or infinite? Or are his powers simply made up
Look into Thiestic Evolution. I think if a God does exists, things are created on a reality scale. Take evolution and remove the random Darwinism.

Thanks
trossthree

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 09-22-2007 11:25 PM Force has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 20 of 28 (423575)
09-22-2007 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Force
09-22-2007 11:16 PM


Re: Zcoder
Take evolution and remove the random Darwinism.
Of course that is not Theistic Evolution. There is no need to reject Darwin or any portion of the Theory of Evolution. In the words of the Clergy Project, a document signed by nearly 11,000 US Christian Clergy:
We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Force, posted 09-22-2007 11:16 PM Force has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Force, posted 09-22-2007 11:37 PM jar has replied

  
Force
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 28 (423579)
09-22-2007 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
09-22-2007 11:25 PM


Re: Zcoder
jar,
quote:
In the words of the Clergy Project, a document signed by nearly 11,000 US Christian Clergy
The idea with Thiestic Evolution is that either all or part of the TOE and the Bible agree.
Theistic evolution - Wikipedia
Here is another link I found through Dictionary.com | Meanings and Definitions of Words at Dictionary.com. The article is just another supporter for my perception on Thiestic Evolution. Really it denies what you said all together.
HTTP 429
Edited by trossthree, : Link
Edited by trossthree, : another link

Thanks
trossthree

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 09-22-2007 11:25 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 09-22-2007 11:42 PM Force has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 22 of 28 (423580)
09-22-2007 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Force
09-22-2007 11:37 PM


The Bible
The idea with Thiestic Evolution is that either all or part of the TOE and the Bible agree.
Not at all.
The concept is that Bible is irrelevant when it comes to science and reality. It doesn't matter whether any of the Theory of Evolution might agree or disagree with the Bible. The Bible deals with relationships, not science.
Further the TOE is irrelevant to the question of whether or not Space is flat, just as the Bible is irrelevant to that question.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Force, posted 09-22-2007 11:37 PM Force has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Force, posted 09-22-2007 11:43 PM jar has replied

  
Force
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 28 (423582)
09-22-2007 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by jar
09-22-2007 11:42 PM


Re: The Bible
jar,
I disagree. Please review my update to my last post. I attached a link.

Thanks
trossthree

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 09-22-2007 11:42 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 09-22-2007 11:47 PM Force has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 24 of 28 (423583)
09-22-2007 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Force
09-22-2007 11:43 PM


Re: The Bible
Yes, I saw your link. It is still irrelevant.
There is still no reason not to accept any and all facets of the TOE and it is still irrelevant to the topic of this thread.
Science is science. Religion deals with a search for a whole different type of truth.
The Bible is irrelevant to either cosmology or evolution.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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 Message 23 by Force, posted 09-22-2007 11:43 PM Force has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Force, posted 09-22-2007 11:52 PM jar has replied

  
Force
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 28 (423585)
09-22-2007 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
09-22-2007 11:47 PM


Re: The Bible
jar,
jar writes:
The Bible is irrelevant to either cosmology or evolution.
In cosmology and evolution there is nothing but evidence to intelligent design.
Big Bang Theory Video
I have nothing else to say. I simply disagree with you.
Edited by trossthree, : err
Edited by trossthree, : link
Edited by trossthree, : format

Thanks
trossthree

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 09-22-2007 11:47 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 09-23-2007 9:35 AM Force has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 26 of 28 (423599)
09-23-2007 2:42 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Taz
03-19-2007 11:40 PM


Tazmanius Devilus writes:
quote:
Liquids ball up together into a ball because of hydrogen bonding not because of gravity.
Incorrect. How do you explain the balling up of mercury which has no hydrogen in it?
No, the reason why liquids ball up is because of surface tension. It's the same reason why bubbles are spherical. The tension of the surface of the fluid seeks to minimize the amount of space taken up by the interior (in order to minimize the forces) and that happens to be a sphere.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 27 of 28 (423618)
09-23-2007 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Force
09-22-2007 11:52 PM


Re: The Bible
In cosmology and evolution there is nothing but evidence to intelligent design.
So you assert.
Yeah, I've watched the infomercials. If you think there is something in them that can be supported, something more than the normal misrepresentation and misdirection of the Biblical Creationists and ID supporters, start a thread on it. We do not debate other websites or video commercials here, so if you think you can support a case for Intelligent Design, please by all means try to do so.
However what I had said was "The Bible is irrelevant to either cosmology or evolution."
That goes to the issue of Intelligent Design as well. It is also irrelevant to this topic.
Like I said, if you believe you can present support for such a position, please start a thread on it.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Force, posted 09-22-2007 11:52 PM Force has replied

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 Message 28 by Force, posted 09-23-2007 11:31 AM jar has not replied

  
Force
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 28 (423630)
09-23-2007 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
09-23-2007 9:35 AM


Re: The Bible
jar,
quote:
Yeah, I've watched the infomercials. If you think there is something in them that can be supported, something more than the normal misrepresentation and misdirection of the Biblical Creationists and ID supporters, start a thread on it. We do not debate other websites or video commercials here, so if you think you can support a case for Intelligent Design, please by all means try to do so.
Then stop debating with me. I was responding to another.
quote:
However what I had said was "The Bible is irrelevant to either cosmology or evolution."
That goes to the issue of Intelligent Design as well. It is also irrelevant to this topic.
Incorrect.
NOTE: Even if we disagree I was also responding to another. End of story. If you respond to this message then you're also in violation of going off topic thread.

"For the day of the LORD draws near on all the nations. As you have done, it will be done to you. Your dealings will return on your own head" OBA:1;15
"And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire" Rev:20;15
"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever" Isa:40;8
Thanks
trossthree

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 09-23-2007 9:35 AM jar has not replied

  
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