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Author Topic:   Inflationary Cosmology
The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 23 (153998)
10-29-2004 12:59 AM


Throughout most of these threads there have been multiple expalinations given for how exsactly the big bang "banged" and since many of these come from competing theories (and different members different interpretations of those theories) many of them seem confusing and conflicting.
One of the most promising theories regarding the big bang is Inflation theory. This theory answers many of the tougher questions about the big bang especaily ones that are ofetn raised in a forum such as this includeing "what caused the big bang?" and "How can a singularity with almost infinite mass expand?" as well as other more obscure difficultyies regarding the big bang.
I thought it would be usefull to have a discussion on this single interpretation of the big bang rather than a conglomoration of competeing big bang theories.
I should also note that inflationary cosmology is not the only theory out there (after all that is the problem isn't it?) and observations may prove it wrong. I should also note that evedence contradicting inflationary cosmology do NOT contradict the big bang theory as inflationary cosmology exsists to adress issues WITH the big bang thoery.

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by coffee_addict, posted 10-29-2004 3:56 AM The Dread Dormammu has replied

  
The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 23 (153999)
10-29-2004 1:01 AM


And the theory is
I can provide a summery of the theory upon request, though it will take quite a while and will be drawn from popularized science (mostly from Brian Greene's "the fabric of the cosmos").
Edited to add: and hopefully there are others who understand the theory, at least in part.
This message has been edited by The Dread Dormammu, 10-29-2004 12:45 AM

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by AdminNosy, posted 10-29-2004 2:17 AM The Dread Dormammu has replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 3 of 23 (154010)
10-29-2004 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by The Dread Dormammu
10-29-2004 1:01 AM


Are you sure?
Do you want this appproved?
I will if you want but it might be a lot of work for you to explain it in any detail and I don't think that you'll get much back.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 10-29-2004 1:01 AM The Dread Dormammu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 10-29-2004 2:27 AM AdminNosy has not replied

  
The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 23 (154013)
10-29-2004 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by AdminNosy
10-29-2004 2:17 AM


Re: Are you sure?
Heh heh, there is a lot to cover I know. I guess I'm hoping that some of the physics buffs out there might be able to help out. I just to be able to provide some consistant answers to common creationist questions about the big bang.
Perhaps if I limited the scope a little bit by proposing that inflationary cosmology provides these 3 solutions.
1: Inflationary cosmology povides an explantion for what might have caused the big bang.
2: Inflationary theory explains how an unimaginably dence universe can expand.
3: Inflationary theory explains why the universe, on a large scale uniform and not "clumpy."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by AdminNosy, posted 10-29-2004 2:17 AM AdminNosy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by bob_gray, posted 10-29-2004 2:49 PM The Dread Dormammu has replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 5 of 23 (154015)
10-29-2004 2:32 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
You asked for it!
This message has been edited by AdminNosy, 10-29-2004 01:33 AM

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 10-29-2004 2:37 AM AdminNosy has not replied

  
The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 23 (154017)
10-29-2004 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by AdminNosy
10-29-2004 2:32 AM


Gulp
GULP!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by AdminNosy, posted 10-29-2004 2:32 AM AdminNosy has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 7 of 23 (154030)
10-29-2004 3:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by The Dread Dormammu
10-29-2004 12:59 AM


Where do you want us to go with this?

He's not dead. He's electroencephalographically challenged.
The longest word in the English language is pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 10-29-2004 12:59 AM The Dread Dormammu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 10-29-2004 5:05 AM coffee_addict has replied

  
The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 23 (154036)
10-29-2004 5:05 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by coffee_addict
10-29-2004 3:56 AM


Let's Start with #2
One of the tougher problems with the big bang theory is that if the universe began as a singularity there doesn't seem to be a mechanisum for it to expand. However if Inflationary theory is correct The higg's feild fluctuations could provide just such an explaination.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by coffee_addict, posted 10-29-2004 3:56 AM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by coffee_addict, posted 10-29-2004 11:45 AM The Dread Dormammu has replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 9 of 23 (154126)
10-29-2004 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by The Dread Dormammu
10-29-2004 5:05 AM


Re: Let's Start with #2
TDD writes:
One of the tougher problems with the big bang theory is that if the universe began as a singularity there doesn't seem to be a mechanisum for it to expand.
Dark Energy.

He's not dead. He's electroencephalographically challenged.
The longest word in the English language is pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 10-29-2004 5:05 AM The Dread Dormammu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 10-29-2004 6:52 PM coffee_addict has not replied

  
bob_gray
Member (Idle past 5014 days)
Posts: 243
From: Virginia
Joined: 05-03-2004


Message 10 of 23 (154168)
10-29-2004 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by The Dread Dormammu
10-29-2004 2:27 AM


big bang causes?
quote:
1: Inflationary cosmology povides an explantion for what might have caused the big bang.
I am only passingly familiar with any of the "Big Bang" theories. I am curious as to what you mean by "caused". Do you picture this singularity sitting somewhere (whatever that means) for an unknown amount of time (if that would even exist) and then one day it just decided to expand? So would "the cause" be what changed in the neighborhood of the singularity to trigger the expansion?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 10-29-2004 2:27 AM The Dread Dormammu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 10-29-2004 7:38 PM bob_gray has not replied
 Message 13 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 10-29-2004 7:38 PM bob_gray has not replied
 Message 14 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 10-29-2004 7:38 PM bob_gray has not replied

  
The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 23 (154243)
10-29-2004 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by coffee_addict
10-29-2004 11:45 AM


Dark Energy
Right! The discovery of dark energy was a big boost to inflationary cosmology becase it confirmend their suspicions that gravity can have a replsive as well as an attractive force. Furthermore the fact that dark enercgy contributed the needed 70% of the critical density for the universe halped make inflationary cosmology the best canidate to explain what happened moments after the big bang.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by coffee_addict, posted 10-29-2004 11:45 AM coffee_addict has not replied

  
The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 23 (154250)
10-29-2004 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by bob_gray
10-29-2004 2:49 PM


Re: big bang causes?
It's more that inflationary cosmology is able to look back farther than the standard big bang theory. Inflationary cosmology agrrees completly with big bang theory but big bang theory has some big questions to answer about what happened in the first few "moments" of the bang. Inflationary cosmology answers some of those those questions and as such looks farther back.
For example we know that matter in the universe is spread out in a very uniform fashion, but not completely uniform, meaning that the universe is clumply enough so that it's not just a uniform mass of hydrogen atoms, but not so clumpy that it is just a mass of black holes. These might seem like extremes but if the inital conditions after the big bang were not almost perfectly ballanced both of these senarios are more likely than the foamy spread of superculsters. 30 years ago phyisists just threw up their hands and said, "Thats just the way inital conditions were" but now we think that this repulsive form of gravity called an inflaton (not incorectly spelled (unlike most of this post) imagine Glue-on or electr-on) feild made space in the first 10 to the -35th seconds expand by a factor of up to 10 to the 100th.
The inflaton feild cut out at exsactly the same time throuout the universe so that matter should have been completely evenly dispersed. HOWEVER due the those pesky quantum uncertatnties it is impossible for an entire feild to cut out at EXSACTLY the same time. Now we can see how we have solved 2 problems with the standard theory: how to explain the universes (near) perfect distribution of matter, and how the universe got started expanding in the first place. Both questions are anwered with gravitys intensley powerful repulsive force, the inflaton feild.
Incedentaly the scale of the expansion is enormous. To use Greene's metaphores; in that first razor thin breif period of time, space expanded in in a way that would be like scaling up a dna molicule to the size of the milky way, and that means that our OBSERVABLE universe, or our hubble volume, is only a tiny speck in the total universe. Greene compaires our hubble volume to a grain of sand compared with the earth (the total cosmos).
This discription of a vastly huge universe actualy solves another problem dubbed "the flatness problem." It appears that our universe's space is flat. Again if things were just a little different it should have either a positive or a negative curve. Now if the universe is realy all that big it explains why our universe LOOKS flat, since it becomes harder and harder to tell if something really large is curved or not. For example, we can easly tell that a tennis ball is curved but unless you are far away from a PLANET-SIZED tennis ball, or are able to make some very precise mesurements you might think it's flat.
So again this was just another one of those initail conditions that phyisisists had no explainaiton for, that inflationary cosmology can help to answer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by bob_gray, posted 10-29-2004 2:49 PM bob_gray has not replied

  
The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 23 (154251)
10-29-2004 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by bob_gray
10-29-2004 2:49 PM


Re: big bang causes?
double post
This message has been edited by The Dread Dormammu, 10-29-2004 06:40 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by bob_gray, posted 10-29-2004 2:49 PM bob_gray has not replied

  
The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 23 (154252)
10-29-2004 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by bob_gray
10-29-2004 2:49 PM


Re: big bang causes?
double post
This message has been edited by The Dread Dormammu, 10-29-2004 06:39 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by bob_gray, posted 10-29-2004 2:49 PM bob_gray has not replied

  
The Dread Dormammu
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 23 (155083)
11-01-2004 9:33 PM


And you only need 20 lbs
Another interesting consiquence of infaltionary theory is that the singularity at the beginning of the bang only needed to weigh about 20lbs and could still have produced all the matter in the universe.
Though inflationary cosmology dosn't provide all the answers, a theory that requires such a small amount of mass to get started seems to be an improvement on the, "infinitely dence, infinitely massive, and we don't know where it came from", statement of standard big bang theory.
This message has been edited by The Dread Dormammu, 11-01-2004 09:33 PM

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by PurpleYouko, posted 11-12-2004 3:03 PM The Dread Dormammu has replied

  
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