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Author Topic:   bulletproof alternate universe
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 308 (95034)
03-26-2004 10:07 PM


This forum has helped lead me to a new possible way of looking at the cosmos. A lot of good work has been done, studying this for years. I actually never realized the depth of this stuff before. I think I may be able to keep it more or less all intact, yet put a creator into it.
I think it is 'bulletproof' from any critisism from science. It goes something like this.
Back near the creation of our universe, it was necesary for the process of time to be set up, that the physical universe be seperated from the invisible, or spiritual one. As it was seperated, what we had was more or less what we see now. Our physical universe was now under time. So that, the cosmos would reflect that. In other words it really is billions of our light years away!
The day that the two universes merge into one, time will be no more. Heaven itself will suddenly appear different, as even the bible talks about. The invisible, the spiritual, the unseen, will then be no longer seperate.
We can not detect the invisible universe now, with our physical science, so I guess it could never be disproved! It explains a 6200 year old creation, despite the present physical time distance! It leaves science pretty well intact!
Once again, just in case I'm missing something somehow, I'm running it by this forum. I suspect this will be a short thread, as I can't see anyone able to dispute it! If anyone sees a flaw, or some reason science would not allow this, give it a shot.
Job 38:7 -"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by RAZD, posted 03-26-2004 11:33 PM simple has replied
 Message 12 by JonF, posted 03-27-2004 8:42 AM simple has replied
 Message 28 by sidelined, posted 03-27-2004 8:43 PM simple has replied
 Message 39 by RAZD, posted 03-28-2004 12:47 AM simple has replied
 Message 86 by neil88, posted 03-29-2004 8:43 AM simple has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 2 of 308 (95043)
03-26-2004 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by simple
03-26-2004 10:07 PM


The Earth is older than is dreamed of in your philosophy Horatio
It explains a 6200 year old creation, despite the present physical time distance! It leaves science pretty well intact!
This does not logically follow from any of the previous concept and in fact contradicts the "So that, the cosmos would reflect that. In other words it really is billions of our light years away!" statement due to the lenght of time required for the light to get here in order to be seen.
It certainly does not explain a 4.55 billion year old earth and 3.5 billion year old life.
{{edit fixes title reference ...}}
[This message has been edited by AbbyLeever, 03-26-2004]

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by simple, posted 03-26-2004 10:07 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by berberry, posted 03-26-2004 11:41 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 6 by simple, posted 03-27-2004 12:26 AM RAZD has replied

berberry
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 308 (95044)
03-26-2004 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by RAZD
03-26-2004 11:33 PM


Re: The Earth is older than is dreamed of in your philosophy yorick.
I really like your subtitle, Abby. Just a note, though, to say that it was actually Horatio to whom your paraphrased statement was made, and that in the first act. It isn't until (about) the 5th act that Yorick enters the picture.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by RAZD, posted 03-26-2004 11:33 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 4 of 308 (95048)
03-26-2004 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by berberry
03-26-2004 11:41 PM


Re: The Earth is older than is dreamed of in your philosophy Horatio
alas poor Yorick. I knew him, Horatio.
my bad.
[This message has been edited by AbbyLeever, 03-26-2004]

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

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 Message 3 by berberry, posted 03-26-2004 11:41 PM berberry has not replied

Riley
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 308 (95050)
03-27-2004 12:12 AM


It isn't until (about) the 5th act that Yorick enters the picture.
Part of him, that is.
I'm reminded of the woman who had gone to see Hamlet, and her friend asked her how she liked it. She said she didn't see what the big deal was about Shakespeare: "Almost the whole play was quotations!"

Replies to this message:
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simple 
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 308 (95053)
03-27-2004 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by RAZD
03-26-2004 11:33 PM


everything explained
quote:
This does not logically follow from any of the previous concept and in fact contradicts the "So that, the cosmos would reflect that. In other words it really is billions of our light years away!" statement due to the lenght of time required for the light to get here in order to be seen.
Well, actually, I perhaps didn't explain it too well. Yes, indeed the stars, then would be billions of our light years away. Before the physical universe was seperated, there were no limtations of time, and light speed. This is because the spiritual is able to travel much much faster, with the speed of thought. When the 2 universes were together, a whole different universe, in some ways, would exist. What we see now is only a shadow, or part. A part that has been made to exist in time. When the 2 universes are reunited, or merged, then as the bible says, there shall be time no more. Just as we cannot see or understand the other side, that most people on our planet know exists, so we can't really now understand an immortal world, and body, and universe, as they will be.
The old physical universe (us, now) speed of light will be largely irrelevant. Just as, around creation 'time' somewhere it was not affecting God, or the spiritual world. When it was seperated, or our universe made, 6000 some years ago, there in the sky, in a now strictly physical universe, was the far away stars. Withe the spirit world no longer merged with us, we can not explain any physical force that would allow the creation to be when it was, as God said, only thousands of years ago. The missing ingredient is the other part of the universe, or, you could even say, the 'other' universe now.
Make any sense now?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by RAZD, posted 03-26-2004 11:33 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by RAZD, posted 03-27-2004 12:47 AM simple has replied
 Message 19 by Coragyps, posted 03-27-2004 6:08 PM simple has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 7 of 308 (95054)
03-27-2004 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Riley
03-27-2004 12:12 AM


Woman in front of Mona Lisa at the Louvre
(new yawk accent)
"I've seen reproductions that are better than this!"

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 Message 8 by simple, posted 03-27-2004 12:41 AM RAZD has replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 308 (95056)
03-27-2004 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by RAZD
03-27-2004 12:29 AM


mona and the blonde
quote:
Woman in front of Mona Lisa at the Louvre
"I've seen reproductions that are better than this!"
So the masterpiece was not able to be appriciated. Good thing she doesn't read this forum, she might not even get something as simple as this 2 universe stuff.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by RAZD, posted 03-27-2004 12:29 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by RAZD, posted 03-27-2004 8:49 AM simple has not replied

Eta_Carinae
Member (Idle past 4375 days)
Posts: 547
From: US
Joined: 11-15-2003


Message 9 of 308 (95057)
03-27-2004 12:42 AM


Oh goody!
Up to 300 more posts of humouring the dork!
Good luck all.

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 10 of 308 (95059)
03-27-2004 12:47 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by simple
03-27-2004 12:26 AM


Re: everything explained
Still doesn't work
Before the moment of separation with no time, light travel would be instantaneous. At the moment of separation time starts and suddenly there is a velocity problem, the universe would be dark until new light reached earth from each star according to its distance.
And I have yet to see how this in any exclusive way "explains a 6200 year old creation" -- particularly as it equally explains any age you want, including a 13.7 billion year old universe that would be consistent with the observed radiation from stars, galaxies and background cosmic microwave radiation -- without the light problem.
Further it doesn't explain the solid evidence here on earth for an age well in excess of 6200 years just from annual rings and layers. (see Age Correlations and an Old Earth for more on this).

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by simple, posted 03-27-2004 12:26 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by simple, posted 03-27-2004 12:13 PM RAZD has replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 308 (95060)
03-27-2004 12:47 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Eta_Carinae
03-27-2004 12:42 AM


Re: Oh goody!
Whoops, maybe she does.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Eta_Carinae, posted 03-27-2004 12:42 AM Eta_Carinae has not replied

JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 12 of 308 (95094)
03-27-2004 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by simple
03-26-2004 10:07 PM


I think it is 'bulletproof' from any critisism from science
Yes, it is bulletproof. That's because it's not science. It's an ad-hoc religious rationalization.
The thesis you have chosen is a variation of "Omphalos". As it says at Omphalos hypothesis:
quote:
The Omphalos hypothesis contains a powerful philosophic problem, one that troubles even those who have applied it in recent times. Since the hypothesis is based on the idea that apparent age is an illusion, it is perfectly resonable to suggest that world was created ten minutes ago. Any memories you have of times before this were created in-situ, in exactly the same fashion that the fossils were. This idea is sometimes called "Last-tuesdayism" by its opponents, as in "the world might as well have been created last tuesday."
Since you have no evidence for your hypothesis, and there is no conceivable evidence that could falsify it, it's not science. You are, of course, free to believe it ... but it's not science, and it'll never be taught in U.S. public schools as such.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by simple, posted 03-26-2004 10:07 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by simple, posted 03-27-2004 12:15 PM JonF has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 13 of 308 (95096)
03-27-2004 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by simple
03-27-2004 12:41 AM


Re: mona and preperception
or her view was clouded by preconceived perceptions of what it should be.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by simple, posted 03-27-2004 12:41 AM simple has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 308 (95124)
03-27-2004 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by RAZD
03-27-2004 12:47 AM


Re: everything explained
quote:
Before the moment of separation with no time, light travel would be instantaneous.
Perhaps more irrelevant than instant. With things that move much faster. A world where we are not bound by time, or light speed, but doesn't mean they won't co-exist. Invisible forces you now can not even see, much less understand. Forces where a spirit could travel billions of light years faster than you can type a post.
A merged universe where these unseen worlds and forces are seen, and a new part of all equations. Not a physical only universe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by RAZD, posted 03-27-2004 12:47 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by RAZD, posted 03-27-2004 6:43 PM simple has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 308 (95125)
03-27-2004 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by JonF
03-27-2004 8:42 AM


your witness
quote:
Yes, it is bulletproof. That's because it's not science. It's an ad-hoc religious rationalization.
It is, just beyond our present scope. Evidence? Billions of witnesses over time to an unseen world!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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