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Author Topic:   The infinite space of the Universe
lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 346 of 380 (470270)
06-10-2008 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 341 by Buzsaw
06-10-2008 6:50 AM


Re: The Infinite Space Of The Universe
Is space bounded?
Not in the model we have been most often been discussing, no. A boundary is an edge.
Not to short your model, but it isn't well enough filled out for anyone to be able to predict what properties are forced upon it based on the few parameters you have assigned it. It does, in fact, seem to contradict most of the properties we know our universe to have.

Kindly
There is a spider by the water pipe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by Buzsaw, posted 06-10-2008 6:50 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 349 by Buzsaw, posted 06-10-2008 6:44 PM lyx2no has replied

Agobot
Member (Idle past 5530 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 347 of 380 (470337)
06-10-2008 6:07 PM


Infinite space and creator
Wouldn't an infinite space negate the existence of god? How would god or any other entity create something that's infinite? IMHO, if space is truly infinite, there could be no creator.

Replies to this message:
 Message 348 by Buzsaw, posted 06-10-2008 6:37 PM Agobot has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 348 of 380 (470347)
06-10-2008 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by Agobot
06-10-2008 6:07 PM


Re: Infinite space and creator
Agobot writes:
Wouldn't an infinite space negate the existence of god? How would god or any other entity create something that's infinite? IMHO, if space is truly infinite, there could be no creator.
That's a very good question, Agobot. I have addressed that other times but I'll run it by you to see what you think.
According to scripture, God is infinite, having been infinitely creating , recreating and managing things in his universe things to suit his purpose and pleasure.
If space were not eternal, neither could God be eternal and without total energy as per LOT 1 being also infinite he could not have eternally existed since all things are of him an come from him in their own time. So with God, Spacetime is eternal.
The people who have the real problem regarding this are all the temporal universe creationists and the temporal big bang folks whether creationists or not. They can't have it both ways. Either God and and the universe which he exists in are eternal or God is temporal. That and the thermodynamics is why I go with eternal universe including space and time. Spacetime is eternal.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by Agobot, posted 06-10-2008 6:07 PM Agobot has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 349 of 380 (470349)
06-10-2008 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 346 by lyx2no
06-10-2008 12:20 PM


Re: The Infinite Space Of The Universe
lyx2no writes:
Not in the model we have been most often been discussing, no. A boundary is an edge.
That's ambiguous. If it's not bounded, it's unbounded. Which is it, (abe: bounded or unbounded)?
Edited by Buzsaw, : as noted

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by lyx2no, posted 06-10-2008 12:20 PM lyx2no has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 350 by lyx2no, posted 06-10-2008 7:44 PM Buzsaw has replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 350 of 380 (470355)
06-10-2008 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by Buzsaw
06-10-2008 6:44 PM


Re: The Infinite Space Of The Universe
What is ambiguous about "no"? Would "yes" also have been ambiguous? Would "maybe" be redundant?

Kindly
There is a spider by the water pipe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Buzsaw, posted 06-10-2008 6:44 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 355 by Buzsaw, posted 06-10-2008 9:23 PM lyx2no has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 351 of 380 (470360)
06-10-2008 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 344 by Straggler
06-10-2008 11:26 AM


Re: Back Again
Straggler writes:
At best creationist theories are a hotchpotch of alternative explanations for the effects and phenomenon that proper scientific theories have already predicted, discovered and uncovered.
So when did the BBT predict inflation?
Was it some 50 years or more after the theory?
When there was enough problems with the BBT that it should have been discarded.
Inflation was not predicted. It was necessary or the BBT was dead. It was an invented add on theory to save a failed theory.
Then it was worked on and modified for the next 20 years to make it fit.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by Straggler, posted 06-10-2008 11:26 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 371 by Straggler, posted 06-11-2008 1:08 PM ICANT has replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 352 of 380 (470370)
06-10-2008 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 345 by lyx2no
06-10-2008 11:59 AM


Re: The Infinite Space Of The Universe
I wont go there - I'm not into talibanic science. But, before enlightening about space, do you except space is a post-uni product, or did it 'ALWAYS EXIST' - which violates the finite universe premise. The preamble rules.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by lyx2no, posted 06-10-2008 11:59 AM lyx2no has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 354 by lyx2no, posted 06-10-2008 9:15 PM IamJoseph has replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 353 of 380 (470371)
06-10-2008 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 351 by ICANT
06-10-2008 8:31 PM


Re: Back Again
The problem with the BBT is, while there is no other known knowledge of the uni origins - this is not in itself a reason to accept the BBT. Basically, the BB is a brylcream kid's definition, namely if space is expanding this-away, it must have come from that-away, and if everything in space is getting bigger, it must have started at a smallest point. It is back zooming of some inferences.
The negative factor of the BB is that it avoids the non-negotiable factor of an external impact applying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by ICANT, posted 06-10-2008 8:31 PM ICANT has not replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 354 of 380 (470372)
06-10-2008 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 352 by IamJoseph
06-10-2008 9:02 PM


Re: The Infinite Space Of The Universe
I assume that your question in English is: "Do you think that space came into existence at T=0 or pre-existed the Universe which expanded into it?"; but, as you have threatened to "enlighten" me after I answer, I'm going to dodge the bullet.

Kindly
There is a spider by the water pipe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 352 by IamJoseph, posted 06-10-2008 9:02 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 356 by IamJoseph, posted 06-10-2008 9:47 PM lyx2no has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 355 of 380 (470374)
06-10-2008 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by lyx2no
06-10-2008 7:44 PM


Re: The Infinite Space Of The Universe
Is space bounded or unbounded, Lyx2no?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by lyx2no, posted 06-10-2008 7:44 PM lyx2no has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 357 by lyx2no, posted 06-10-2008 10:37 PM Buzsaw has not replied

IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 356 of 380 (470378)
06-10-2008 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 354 by lyx2no
06-10-2008 9:15 PM


Re: The Infinite Space Of The Universe
quote:
I'm going to dodge the bullet.
I must have asked a scary question. Just to make it even more interesting - unbounded has no relationship with un-ending.
My confusion is, are you not confused when speaking of the universe origins, without first stating a preamble, like which universe are you discussing - a finite or infinite one - like as if this is a superflous factor?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 354 by lyx2no, posted 06-10-2008 9:15 PM lyx2no has not replied

lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 357 of 380 (470385)
06-10-2008 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 355 by Buzsaw
06-10-2008 9:23 PM


Asked and Answered
Buzsaw: is space bounded?
lyx2no: . no.
Buzsaw: That’s ambiguous.
lyx2no: What is ambiguous about “no”?
Buzsaw: Is space bound or unbound?
lyx2no: Yes.

So as not to waste a post: It was not the question that scared me, IaJ.

Kindly
There is a spider by the water pipe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 355 by Buzsaw, posted 06-10-2008 9:23 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Agobot
Member (Idle past 5530 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 358 of 380 (470427)
06-11-2008 6:15 AM


Multiple Big Bangs
If we accept the BB theory, what scientific and physical arguments would negate a multiple big bang thesis and the existence of multiple(infinite?) number of universes? If one big bang is possible under the quantum fluctuations premise, why wouldn't there be 2 or 3 or 10 000?

Replies to this message:
 Message 359 by dawkinsisNOTGod, posted 06-11-2008 6:26 AM Agobot has replied

dawkinsisNOTGod 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5769 days)
Posts: 33
From: Lashville, Tennessee
Joined: 06-11-2008


Message 359 of 380 (470429)
06-11-2008 6:26 AM
Reply to: Message 358 by Agobot
06-11-2008 6:15 AM


Re: Multiple Big Bangs
God only allowed for one big bang as creation is complete. We can only destroy not create in my humble opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by Agobot, posted 06-11-2008 6:15 AM Agobot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 360 by Hiram, posted 06-11-2008 6:29 AM dawkinsisNOTGod has not replied
 Message 363 by Agobot, posted 06-11-2008 6:36 AM dawkinsisNOTGod has replied

Hiram 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5769 days)
Posts: 14
Joined: 06-11-2008


Message 360 of 380 (470430)
06-11-2008 6:29 AM
Reply to: Message 359 by dawkinsisNOTGod
06-11-2008 6:26 AM


Re: Multiple Big Bangs
Whatever. Did you not have a lego set as a lid?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by dawkinsisNOTGod, posted 06-11-2008 6:26 AM dawkinsisNOTGod has not replied

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