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Author Topic:   Universe Race
ICANT
Member (Idle past 143 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 28 of 410 (456999)
02-21-2008 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by PaulK
02-15-2008 8:59 AM


Re-Start of Race
Hi Paul,
Paulk writes:
The big problem is that stars did NOT begin at the same point.
Paul you really got me confused with this one.
Son Goku told me Here
Son Goku writes:
13.7 billion years ago the whole universe was about the size of a pea.
If all mass and energy was compressed into such a small area, why didn't everything start at the same place?
If it was under so much pressure how did it get out?
I have a problem with the universe being the size of a pea maybe some of you fellows can help my understanding a little.
Mass and energy can not be created. They can change places.
But how do you get the volume of mass and energy that is in the universe in something so small?
Could someone, anybody, everybody please explain?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by PaulK, posted 02-15-2008 8:59 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by cavediver, posted 02-21-2008 10:21 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 31 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-21-2008 10:37 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 32 by Taz, posted 02-21-2008 10:53 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 43 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2008 11:58 AM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member (Idle past 143 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 33 of 410 (457008)
02-21-2008 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by cavediver
02-21-2008 10:21 AM


Re-Stars
Hi cavediver,
cavediver writes:
Because stars didn't begin to form until 100s of millions of years after the big bang.
But if their energy and mass was in that small pea sized universe and began to expand even though they were not formed until several million years later didn't they start at the same place? Just in a different form than we see them today.
Would not all the elements be travling at the same rate of expansion and if not expansion would not be true?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by cavediver, posted 02-21-2008 10:21 AM cavediver has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Rahvin, posted 02-21-2008 11:25 AM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member (Idle past 143 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 34 of 410 (457011)
02-21-2008 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by New Cat's Eye
02-21-2008 10:37 AM


Re-density
Hi CS,
Catholic Scientist writes:
By approaching infinite density.
Don't black holes have infinite density?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-21-2008 10:37 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Taz, posted 02-21-2008 11:06 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 42 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-21-2008 11:48 AM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member (Idle past 143 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 35 of 410 (457015)
02-21-2008 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Taz
02-21-2008 10:53 AM


Re-volume
Hi Taz,
Taz writes:
I think I know why you are confused. Most lay people think matter is solid in the conventional sense.
Taz I was thinking of it being pure energy since they can change forms.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Taz, posted 02-21-2008 10:53 AM Taz has not replied

ICANT
Member (Idle past 143 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 37 of 410 (457017)
02-21-2008 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Taz
02-21-2008 11:06 AM


Re-density
Hi Taz,
Taz writes:
I think I know why you are confused. Most lay people think matter is solid in the conventional sense.
Do you know the answer to the question I asked as your babbling did not come close to a yes or no.
The question was, does a black have infinite density?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Taz, posted 02-21-2008 11:06 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Taz, posted 02-21-2008 11:14 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 39 by Percy, posted 02-21-2008 11:23 AM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member (Idle past 143 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 41 of 410 (457028)
02-21-2008 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Taz
02-21-2008 11:14 AM


Re-infinity
Hi Taz,
Sorry I was running in and out of the house trying to please the missus in the yard work.
Taz writes:
I'm trying to get you to understand the concept of infinity and approaching infinity.
I don't think I have a problem with infinity as I believe in an infinite universe. But maybe I do.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Taz, posted 02-21-2008 11:14 AM Taz has not replied

ICANT
Member (Idle past 143 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 44 of 410 (457032)
02-21-2008 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Rahvin
02-21-2008 11:25 AM


Re-Expansion
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes:
You're still trying to comprehend this as an "explosion," like a bomb.
No I am trying to think of it as baking a cake in a cone type baking pan. A cone is the normal analogy given for the expansion of the big bang.
In doing that everything would be in the bottom. But it could only produce so much. It would be limited to the amount of volume of the cake dough in the bottom of the baking pan.
Just as the universe would be limited to the volume of pure energy that could be contained in something the size of a pea.
The balloon don't fly because everything would be getting farther apart and it is not. Galxayes have colided and are going to colide.
I don't think the balloon is a good example at all. It creates too many problems.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Rahvin, posted 02-21-2008 11:25 AM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Percy, posted 02-21-2008 12:15 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 46 by cavediver, posted 02-21-2008 12:22 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 47 by Rahvin, posted 02-21-2008 12:26 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 48 by Taz, posted 02-21-2008 12:30 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member (Idle past 143 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 50 of 410 (457052)
02-21-2008 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by PaulK
02-21-2008 11:58 AM


Re-Universe
Hi Paul,
Paulk writes:
THere were no stars in that volume. Stars did not exist then. Matter didn't exist then. Stars formed much later.
Son Goku told me Here
Son Goku writes:
13.7 billion years ago the whole universe was about the size of a pea.
I am having a real problem here. Son says the whole universe was about the size of a pea.
That means everything in the universe had to be in some form at the point Son is speaking about.
Mass and energy can not be created so all the mass and energy had to be there in the form of Pure Energy.
I was suggesting to Son Here
ICANT writes:
If we go back in time to T=0 we have a mass between 5 and 7 billion light years in diameter. I have no idea what shape it would be. But I would assume it was probably pretty much the shape of the universe today.
Son was assuring me the universe was about the size of a pea.
I am just trying to sort out what I thought I had learned here.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2008 11:58 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2008 12:49 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member (Idle past 143 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 53 of 410 (457058)
02-21-2008 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Taz
02-21-2008 12:30 PM


Re-Expansion
Thanks Taz,
That sounds a lot better. Although the ants would not be affected by the laws of physics.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Taz, posted 02-21-2008 12:30 PM Taz has not replied

ICANT
Member (Idle past 143 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 56 of 410 (457069)
02-21-2008 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by cavediver
02-21-2008 12:40 PM


Re-Planck volume
Hi cavediver,
cavediver writes:
Conclusion: our pea is actually rather uncramped...
How much gravitational pull would be necessary to suck the universe into something the size a of pea?
God Bless,
Edited by ICANT, : No reason given.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by cavediver, posted 02-21-2008 12:40 PM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by cavediver, posted 02-21-2008 1:25 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 58 by onifre, posted 02-21-2008 1:28 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member (Idle past 143 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 61 of 410 (457092)
02-21-2008 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by cavediver
02-21-2008 1:25 PM


Re: Pull
Thanks cavediver,
I understand what it would take for it to revert back.
I was asking how much gravitational pull it took in the beginning to hold everything in that small space.
Or is there another solution?
What held all this energy together under the extreme pressure it had to be under.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by cavediver, posted 02-21-2008 1:25 PM cavediver has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Rahvin, posted 02-21-2008 2:18 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member (Idle past 143 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 67 of 410 (457149)
02-21-2008 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Rahvin
02-21-2008 2:18 PM


Re: Pull
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes:
Well, it didn't really "hold together," now did it. It expanded, literally for all of time.
My question was: "I was asking how much gravitational pull it took in the beginning to hold everything in that small space."
With no answer from the experts I will try to answer my own question.
It would take an infinite gravitational field.
Since this pea sized object with its infinite gravitational field prior to the Big Bang would be trillions, and trillions of times more massive in volume than any of the known black holes (all of them were there also they are part of the universe) from which nothing can escape not even light.
Would you like to explain how the universe was able to escape from this infinite gravitational field?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Rahvin, posted 02-21-2008 2:18 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by cavediver, posted 02-21-2008 4:27 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 70 by Taz, posted 02-21-2008 4:29 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 71 by Rahvin, posted 02-21-2008 4:34 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member (Idle past 143 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 74 of 410 (457176)
02-21-2008 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by onifre
02-21-2008 1:28 PM


Re-Planck volume
Hi onifre, welcome to EvC
onifre writes:
All the matter that is present today in this universe was created after the first star was created so you don't need to imagine this universe compressed to the size of a pea.
Since matter and energy can not be created, I assume you are referring to energy being converted into matter.
So you have not eliminated the necessity for everything you see and everything you don't see in the universe being present at inception.
It would just be in a different form.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by onifre, posted 02-21-2008 1:28 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Rahvin, posted 02-21-2008 5:20 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 80 by onifre, posted 02-21-2008 6:36 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member (Idle past 143 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 75 of 410 (457179)
02-21-2008 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Taz
02-21-2008 4:29 PM


Re: Pull
Thanks Taz,
Taz writes:
The more important point is I can already see you inserting god in this gap already. Go ahead. Noone will stop you.
Sorry to dissapoint you Taz.
I am not discussing the origin of this pea sized universe.
That would be when I would get to the God thing.
Right now my thirst is in my mind and I can't find the answers to these very important questions.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Taz, posted 02-21-2008 4:29 PM Taz has not replied

ICANT
Member (Idle past 143 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 76 of 410 (457182)
02-21-2008 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by cavediver
02-21-2008 4:27 PM


Re: Pull
Hi cavediver,
cavediver writes:
The Universe is not some object that is attracted by gravity!
I think you are talking about the universe after the Big Bang correct me if I am wrong.
I am talking about the pea sized universe Son told me existed at T=O.
That means the entire universe we see today and all the things we don't see that are yet to be discovered, was packed into something about the size of a pea.
Unless matter and energy can be created from the absence of anything, is this possible?
Our sun is a massive ball of energy.
Then when you consider the 100 billion galaxies all the stars and suns that is a lot of energy.
The core of our earth is energy.
For all the other galaxies and gravity to work in the universe there has got to be unimaginable energy at work.
Now pack all that in something the size of a pea.
What kind of force would it take to accomplish that feat.
If something was that strong how could anything escape?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by cavediver, posted 02-21-2008 4:27 PM cavediver has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Rahvin, posted 02-21-2008 5:38 PM ICANT has replied

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