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Author Topic:   Speed of Light
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 247 of 268 (671438)
08-25-2012 1:22 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by David Carroll
08-24-2012 11:59 PM


Re: c & t
But from what I understand, the speed of light can be measured only if the transmitter and the receiver are both laboratorically at hand.
Your understanding is not correct. As an example Roemer produced an estimate of the speed of light in 1670 by measuring the discrepancies in the observed positions of one of Jupiter's moon (Io). Neither the source of the light (the sun) or the reflecting object (Io) were accessible to Roemer.
What is necessary to measure the speed of light, is a distance to traverse, and an indication of the time for traversing that distance. The distance need not include the point of transmission.
Further, it is impossible to measure the speed of light by measuring the energy of a photon because photons always travel at the same speed. So the fact that there are multiple sources of red-blue shift is irrelevant.
if there is dark matter, this would certainly mess with the rate of development of a star or galaxy
Surely, eh? So what would be the mechanism for dark matter to affect the development of a star?
If you are interested in how the distance to astronomical objects are determined I recommend the following wikipedia article as a start.
Cosmic distance ladder - Wikipedia
And you aren't working on anything like a "theory".

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own. George Bernard Shaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by David Carroll, posted 08-24-2012 11:59 PM David Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by David Carroll, posted 08-25-2012 2:05 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 249 of 268 (671441)
08-25-2012 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 248 by David Carroll
08-25-2012 2:05 AM


Re: c & t
As far as dark matter goes, if we assume that dark matter has a non-uniform density distribution across the universe, which is only fair considering that we can't directly see it anyway, a star in between two masses of dark matter may, or perhaps surrounded by some halo of dark matter, would have its gravitational field something to contend with
Dark energy and dark matter don't have appreciable gravitational effects over such small distances. Motion within the solar system acts essentially according to Newtonian mechanics, taking into account only gravity as produced by ordinary matter.
You are making this stuff up. For example...
Such would be the case with the sun and Io, both of whose distances can easily be determined by parallax and luminosity.
No that is not how we determine or know the distance to Jupiter, Io, or the Sun.
but simply a way to convey the idea that the distance between the transmitter and the receiver are pre-determined
We don't need to know the location of the transmitter (sun). What is important in Roemer's experiment is knowing the difference in distances between Jupiter and earth at different times.
I ask again what is the purpose of these flights of fancy. You are making up stuff to explain what exactly? I raised the issue that we have evidence that the speed of light was consistent with its current value at a time 160000 years in the past. Carbon dating is only used to estimate dates that are within the last 50,000 years or so, which is sufficient to debunk at least some creationist estimates for the age of the earth. So when is this step change in the speed of light supposed to have happened?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own. George Bernard Shaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by David Carroll, posted 08-25-2012 2:05 AM David Carroll has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 250 of 268 (671447)
08-25-2012 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 242 by David Carroll
08-24-2012 1:01 PM


Re: c & t
And then wouldn't this account for the red-shift? If c were faster, then wouldn't the space dimension parallel to the direction of the faster-c light-beam undergo a Lorentzian expansion/dilation? (Since, if c were faster, time by definition would undergo a negative dilation, i.e. a positive time-contraction....and to preserve the geometry of the spacetime frame belonging to this faster-c light beam, a negative Lorentzian contraction
Show me the math. This looks like complete nonsense.
If the speed of light were larger then the Lorentzian effects would be less as viewed from our frame of reference. If the speed of light were infinitely great, there would be no Lorentzian relativistic effects at all. After all time-dilation and length contraction effects are related to v/c.
Besides all that, have you forgotten that you are postulating a single step increase in the velocity of light? If there is no dependency of red shift with distance, and the explanation were as you suggest, we would expect to see a single value for red-shift for all distant objects. Is that what observation reveals?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own. George Bernard Shaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by David Carroll, posted 08-24-2012 1:01 PM David Carroll has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 253 of 268 (671504)
08-26-2012 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by Dr Adequate
08-26-2012 6:14 AM


Re: c & t
So if you can't do that then it's the sort of idea that might come to one in one's bath.
Not that there is anything wrong with a Eureka moment in the bath.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own. George Bernard Shaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-26-2012 6:14 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 254 of 268 (671517)
08-26-2012 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Percy
08-26-2012 9:49 AM


Re: c & t
The speed of light, denoted by c, is a fundamental property of our universe. It just so happens that photons in a vacuum travel at c
Every time I read these phrases, the content nags at me, and finally I had to post. "c" is the speed of light in empty space. If there is a coincidence, it is that "outer space" behaves like empty space. It is not a coincidence that photos travel at the speed of light.
I agree with your point about the speed of light in empty space being a fundamental property of the universe.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own. George Bernard Shaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Percy, posted 08-26-2012 9:49 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by Percy, posted 08-26-2012 10:28 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
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