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Author Topic:   Speed of Light
onifre
Member (Idle past 3062 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 8 of 268 (472209)
06-20-2008 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Libmr2bs
06-20-2008 10:02 PM


If our solar system is being drawn toward a black hole in the middle of our galaxy and far away other solar systems are collapsing toward the center of their galaxies, then indeed there would be a red shift even if there is no relative movements between the center of the galaxies.
Could you explain that one? Wouldn't you also observe the wavelength contracting if they were going toward the black hole from a different frame of observation? Causing the light from the galaxies to change color?
But what we observe is only that the wavelength is being pulled in one direction causing only a red-shift so it can ONLY indicate expantion.
But if you have some reference where evidence has been found about the 'black hole/red-shift theory' you talked about I'd be really interested in reading about it.

All great truths begin as blasphemies
I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Libmr2bs, posted 06-20-2008 10:02 PM Libmr2bs has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Libmr2bs, posted 06-21-2008 11:33 PM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3062 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 12 of 268 (472697)
06-24-2008 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Libmr2bs
06-21-2008 11:33 PM


Re: speed of light
The Doppler Effect is usually thought of as a source moving and its effect on the wavelength received at a frame of reference that is stationary.
Yes. As the light moves toward us the wavelength is moving faster, as it is going away from us, it is going slower. If im not mistaken this process does change the color of the light though. If the galaxies were moving towards us they would not be red-shifting.
But any radial velocity of the stars caused by attraction toward the center of their galaxy (black hole or not) would diminish the effect. On the other hand, stars moving away from us would have the wavelength elongated further by the same radial velocity.
I doubt you'll find any evidence for this.
Thus the light from the near side would produce more waves and a more apparent elongated state at our stationary receiver. If the receiver is our planet and is moving toward the center of our galaxy, the effect would be intensified even if the galaxies were stationary.
I'd need to see evidence for something like that. I'd figure astrophysicist and cosmologist would have already taken our rate of speed into account. I could be wrong though.
So I simply question the use of Doppler and put forth a hypothesis that the results may be biased.
Whats wrong with the Doppler? It's measurable, it makes predictions, it's falsifiable...What don't you like about it?
Just because it goes against what you were able to postulate doesn't make IT wrong...I think it makes you wrong.

All great truths begin as blasphemies
I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Libmr2bs, posted 06-21-2008 11:33 PM Libmr2bs has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Libmr2bs, posted 06-24-2008 8:57 PM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3062 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 16 of 268 (472844)
06-25-2008 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Libmr2bs
06-24-2008 8:57 PM


Re: speed of light
Would I be the first that someone thought was wrong? A stellar group of folks I would say.
Of course not.
I only suggest that Doppler should be confirmed by some other means before closing the book forever.
Sometimes one means is all you'll be able to have. If it as solid as something like the Doppler which can not only be tested for accuracy on galaxies but it can be tested here on Earth with something as simple as a car, I think you've got yourself a pretty good means for testing direction.
I do see your point though.
But don't forget that the metric space in between the galaxies is also measured and this further indicates that the space between them is expanding.

All great truths begin as blasphemies
I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Libmr2bs, posted 06-24-2008 8:57 PM Libmr2bs has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Libmr2bs, posted 06-25-2008 9:10 PM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3062 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 21 of 268 (472859)
06-25-2008 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Agobot
06-25-2008 8:56 AM


Re: Dark energy
I would think this little thing called gravity would decrease in strength with the ever expanding universe.
Thats the issue basically, that gravity seems to be lossing out to whatever it is thats expanding the Universe. If gravity was effecting the expantion then something like the Big Crunch...
Big Crunch - Wikipedia
...would happen.
However, the Universe is expanding and accelerating with no indication of regressing, so that is why the predicted outcome is now shifted more to a Big Freeze.
Heat death of the universe - Wikipedia

All great truths begin as blasphemies
I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Agobot, posted 06-25-2008 8:56 AM Agobot has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by ramoss, posted 06-25-2008 1:18 PM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3062 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 24 of 268 (472874)
06-25-2008 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by NosyNed
06-25-2008 8:46 AM


Re: Dark energy
Dark energy isn't used to talk about the expansion of the universe. The problem is that, in the last few years, measurements indicate that the rate of expansion is increasing.
Dark energy - Wikipedia

All great truths begin as blasphemies
I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by NosyNed, posted 06-25-2008 8:46 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3062 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 25 of 268 (472875)
06-25-2008 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by ramoss
06-25-2008 1:18 PM


Re: Dark energy
That is exactly why 'Dark Energy' is a hypothesis right now , because of the observation.
Huh?

All great truths begin as blasphemies
I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by ramoss, posted 06-25-2008 1:18 PM ramoss has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3062 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 26 of 268 (472876)
06-25-2008 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Taz
06-25-2008 1:30 PM


Wow, you guys are masters of the bleeding obvious.
How so?

All great truths begin as blasphemies
I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Taz, posted 06-25-2008 1:30 PM Taz has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3062 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 29 of 268 (472987)
06-26-2008 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Libmr2bs
06-25-2008 9:10 PM


Re: speed of light
If galaxies are shrinking then the space between them would be expanding.
If galaxies were shrinking, then they would all appear to be moving away from us at the same rate. But we observe that farther objects are moving away from us faster than near objects (some of which are actually getting closer to us) which is consistent with the Big Bang.
If galaxies were shrinking then stars in our own galaxy would be blue shifted toward us, which we don't observe.
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

All great truths begin as blasphemies
I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Libmr2bs, posted 06-25-2008 9:10 PM Libmr2bs has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Taz, posted 06-27-2008 12:35 AM onifre has replied
 Message 234 by Viv Pope, posted 01-02-2010 2:45 PM onifre has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3062 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 32 of 268 (473345)
06-28-2008 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Taz
06-27-2008 12:35 AM


Re: speed of light
This would be called "blue shift".
Thanks, I have since changed it.

All great truths begin as blasphemies
I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Taz, posted 06-27-2008 12:35 AM Taz has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3062 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 190 of 268 (539663)
12-18-2009 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by cavediver
12-18-2009 4:33 AM


Re: Spin and Perception
Iblis writes:
and they aren't bound by the speed of light.
cavediver writes:
Oh yes they are
Aren't the two events causally disconnected because of the speed of light limit?
- Oni
Btw the link to your discusion with RAZD is awesome. I have to go through the archives here more often, so much is already covered and answered. Thanks for that link.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by cavediver, posted 12-18-2009 4:33 AM cavediver has not replied

  
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