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Author | Topic: Life on Other Planets: Is it a problem for creationists? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rei Member (Idle past 7013 days) Posts: 1546 From: Iowa City, IA Joined: |
(originally posted to Mendy):
On the subject of life on other worlds, I'd be interested in your take on this: Why We Believe In A Designer! It's by Ed Babinski, a former creationist. He raises some excellent issues that I'd be interested in seing your response in, concerning the universe and other planets. Also, from his introduction to this section:
quote: P.S. - I think there may have been some threads that I missed when I was really busy that we had been chatting in before. If you can think of any, just bump them and I'll get back to you. ------------------"Illuminant light, illuminate me."
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
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Will_Drotar Inactive Member |
The 'problem' is more for theists in general.
Life hasn't yet been discovered on other planets. It's unreasonable to assume that it will be too, without any further evidence. What we rely on so far is evidence, and right now there is no support for life elsewhere- and it's even less reasonable to assume that the life elsewhere will be intelligent. Even if there is life on other planets, it poses no theological problem. Intelligent life would. TTYL Jesus loves you!
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Rei Member (Idle past 7013 days) Posts: 1546 From: Iowa City, IA Joined: |
So, how does *no* life on other planets fit in with a theistic world view? From what we can see so far, it looks as if planets are actually quite commonplace around stars. There are *hundreds of billions* of stars in our galaxy, which is one of tens of thousands of galaxies. Would God create such vast galactic real estate - most of it completely unobservable by humans - for naught?
Good point, about the distinction between life on other planets, and intelligent life on other planets. But again: would he create life for naught? ------------------"Illuminant light, illuminate me."
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.7 |
If you're going to invoke an infinite creator, scale doesn't really matter, does it? One planet, two planets, a hundred-billion-and-seventy-six planets? What's the difference?
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5872 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Even if there is life on other planets, it poses no theological problem. Intelligent life would. Probably a truism. Didn't Giordino Bruno get burned at the stake for merely speculating about the possibility?
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Rei Member (Idle past 7013 days) Posts: 1546 From: Iowa City, IA Joined: |
Did you read the post in the introduction to this thread? It makes the geocentric biblical creation account unrealistic.
------------------"Illuminant light, illuminate me."
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Will_Drotar Inactive Member |
Let's stick with what we know- there are billions of other planets and galaxies.
Now why? A YEC might have difficulty with that. But from a theistic evolutionist standpoint, it's simply a side effect of the Big Bang. How so? The universe displays homogenity. If God created our planet via condensation of stellar gases and matter into the sun, which eventually would get enough mass to undergo nucleosynthesis. One of the effects of GR is the prediction of frame bending. Naturally, as matter fell into the sun, SOME of it (in our galaxy, roughly less than 1 percent)would get caught along the orbit of it in it's angular momentum. These rings of matter eventually condensed then. Seeing that what caused the sun and the other galaxies to condense was simply put, a lot of matter, why wouldn't there be the same effect IN ALL DIRECTIONS? The trait of homogenity would mean that if matter condensed in this portion of the universe, and likewise there's matter expanding in ALL directions, wouldn't all directions then evidence the same effect? Now to say there's life on other planets- let's not get ahead of ourselves. If there is, God ordained it. I'm really a traditional Reformationist Christian- I believe that not a speck of dust falls without God knowing about it and God ordaining it. If there's life on other planets, God made it via natural processes. The issue of intelligent life... I'm not going to solve a problem that we don't know exists. If there is, God made it. I don't ask the questions man, I just submit and obey. TTYL Jesus loves you! BTW, I read a book called The Five Ages of the Universe that went into great depth about this. It's EXTREMELY speculative, but an interesting read nonetheless. Actually, one of the authors is like a few years older than I. Man, I hope that when I'm 21 I'll be that smart. And famous. That'd be nice too.
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Rei Member (Idle past 7013 days) Posts: 1546 From: Iowa City, IA Joined: |
Interesting. I can see how it wouldn't cause a problem for those who believe in theistic evolution; however, there still seems to be a problem for those who believe in a literal reading of Genesis (which was the original issue raised).
------------------"Illuminant light, illuminate me."
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Will_Drotar Inactive Member |
They've got bigger issues than this man.
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Lizard Breath Member (Idle past 6695 days) Posts: 376 Joined: |
When Jesus fed the multitude by creating bread and fish from one boy's lunch, he didn't create enough to bury the whole crowd waist deep in food and then say "Behold the power of God!". He only created enough to fit the need for the day to give the people enough energy to make it back to their homes. He also commanded the leftovers to be gathered which says to me that God is not wasteful and is very purposeful in what he does.
So to say that 50 billion gallaxies times 400 billion stars (I assume most gallaxies will be similiar in construction if the mechanics for their creation parellel) per galaxy would be a waste of energy for a God who bothered to collect some shreds of bread and fish heads (I would not have eaten the heads if I had been there). From an evolutionist perspective it seems logical to me that there are as many stars as there is, in fact it would not be troubling to me if there turns out to be even more. But from a creationist perspective the volume of stars is perplexing if made by the same God as Jesus claimed to be. So not only do the other stars in general have a purpose, but based on the collection of the food scraps example, each and every star and surrounding planet out there must have a specific purpose if it holds to God's own example given of himself. If this issue would ever be rectified within the bounds of the Creationist model, an MP3 sermon CD of it would probably outsell Michael Jackson's Thriller album. (We have to talk about MJ since he's in the news today)
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
And I also see Christ as not wanting to waste food, but also Christ doing a lot on the cross, just for humans. So I can infact whole heartedly believe he would even create a universe to make us and keep the left overs.
[This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 11-20-2003]
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Prozacman Inactive Member |
Oh no! Not 'Food of the Gods' again?
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DaVx0r Inactive Member |
This does not threaten the creationist beliefs at all.
Our god has created many, many worlds and galaxies. Earth, however, was his main creation and also first creation. There may be life on other planets, but if there is, god created it, therefore this is not a threat at all, and whoever this guy is pretty unintelligent to even think this would be a threat.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
There may be life on other planets, but if there is, god created it, therefore this is not a threat at all, and whoever this guy is pretty unintelligent to even think this would be a threat. So, did Jesus die for their sins, too? Or did they have their own alien Jesus? Or maybe they never ate the fruit, etc? So there's no sin on their planet - but then, if sin entered the entire universe because of Adam and Eve, do they then have sin for no fault of their own? It's difficult to countenance a god that would condemn all intellegent life for the actions of two people on one planet. Extraterrestrial life puts some wrinkles in your theology; I'm surprised you haven't thought of them before.
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