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Author Topic:   ex-YECs -- a question
roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 1 of 36 (174571)
01-07-2005 12:53 AM


I'm not sure how many ex-YECs we have here, but I was wondering if you would be willing to share with us the details of your transformation from YECist to old earther.
I'm particularly interested in the pieces of evidence that finally convinced you YECism was wrong and how long it took to reach that conclusion.
Additionally, were you open or completely closed to the idea of an old earth and how long did the transformation process take? Were you scientifically literate or not? Was it spiritually devastating or fulfilling?
I'm interested because I have been involved in many young earth v. old earth discussions and for the most part, they seem like a complete waste of time - not to mention frustrating as hell. It does seem, however, that the silent majority are where the battles are being won.
The YECs who argue the loudest are generally the ones most steeped in YEC propaganda and the ones unwilling to look at or mull over the evidence presented. The ones who stand quietly in the background are listening, paying attention, and seem to be the ones who are actually critically analysing the discussions.
Please share your story.... and re-inspire those of us thinking of retiring this old debate.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by mike the wiz, posted 01-07-2005 8:40 AM roxrkool has replied
 Message 6 by coffee_addict, posted 01-07-2005 10:40 PM roxrkool has replied
 Message 15 by PecosGeorge, posted 01-11-2005 2:33 PM roxrkool has replied
 Message 27 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-29-2005 1:05 AM roxrkool has replied

  
AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 2 of 36 (174615)
01-07-2005 7:50 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 3 of 36 (174631)
01-07-2005 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by roxrkool
01-07-2005 12:53 AM


Hi Roxrkool.
I was YEC. Now, I believe that the Big Bang was the Creation Event.
Despite my exaggerated and radical words at EvC, I'm basically the least bothered person concerning creationism/evolution. To notice this, one can read my posts and derive that they are mainly concerned with F&B.
I was convinced the earth old because like NosyNed often has said, the rocks or earth is an accurate word of God, or should be to a believer. Even the NT says that the heavens were of old.
Also, because of Einstein and light. I watched the series Light Fantastic, which explained how the universe must be old. But basically the evidence is overwhelming for me - even light from the sun takes eight minutes to reach us. ALso, I think taking the Genesis days as literal really swung it for me. There just simply is no reason to create a silly literalist rule that those days were twenty four hours. For me - that totally limits God and adds to the text. For example, the first day there was no sun - so why would that day need to be a yom?
And so I personally reached an odd position of creationist/evolutionist hybrid. Believing that man has been around six thousand years, and that the texts indicates his arrival after God "let the earth bring forth" organisms. Which also matches up with evolution, - another logical pathway in my mind. So we either got here instantaneously, through miraculous means. Or we arrived through the animals. I favour the former - but think that some evolution of animal kinds is evidenced.
So yes - I am an old earth creationist. But also - I'm indecisive/a contradiction. That's because I don't know what to believe about this issue - and have always had this problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by roxrkool, posted 01-07-2005 12:53 AM roxrkool has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Parasomnium, posted 01-07-2005 8:52 AM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 7 by roxrkool, posted 01-08-2005 1:46 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 4 of 36 (174639)
01-07-2005 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by mike the wiz
01-07-2005 8:40 AM


mike the wiz writes:
I don't know what to believe about this issue - and have always had this problem.
I wouldn't call that a problem, Mike. It's a blessing in a burqa. If someone says they know what to believe, they intrinsically limit themselves for no reason. But, by saying that you don't know what to believe, you keep your options open. And that is a healthy mental attitude.
Congratulations.

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by mike the wiz, posted 01-07-2005 8:40 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by mike the wiz, posted 01-07-2005 9:03 PM Parasomnium has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 5 of 36 (174891)
01-07-2005 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Parasomnium
01-07-2005 8:52 AM


Yes - yes, absolutely - thanks kind baba!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Parasomnium, posted 01-07-2005 8:52 AM Parasomnium has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 6 of 36 (174917)
01-07-2005 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by roxrkool
01-07-2005 12:53 AM


9th grade. Someone asked me a very simple question. "How did Noah fit all that animal on the ark?" Well, being a YEC and fundamentalist christian, I just stared at him dumbfounded.
Nowadays, I'm sometimes amazed to find mature adults trying to ignore the impossibility of Noah's ark having the capacity to carry 2 of every air breathing land animal on Earth, not to mention the food supply for everyone and every animal on board for at least 40 days and 40 nights.
Anyway, back to 9th grade. I just stared at him until the bell rang and I left for class. That very simple question triggered a chain reaction. I began to ask the question, "where can I find the list of events in the bible to ignore and events to take literally?" The preacher that came to our school every Wed-ness day said that everything was to be taken literally and that it was possible for Noah to fit 2 of every animal on Earth on the ark because god could do everything. Well, that satisfied my curiosity for about 1 minute.
On that day, it occured to me that everything my preacher had to offer was "goddunit". He actually didn't know much about anything (I talked to him some more later on).
I stopped going to his bible study sessions and it was a slipery slope from then on
This message has been edited by Lam, 01-07-2005 22:51 AM
This message has been edited by Lam, 01-07-2005 22:52 AM

Here is something to relieve stress.
a + b = t
(a + b)(a - b) = t(a - b)
a - b = at - bt
a - at = b - bt
a - at + t/4 = b - bt + t/4
(a - t/2) = (b - t/2)
a - t/2 = b - t/2
a = b
Since all numbers are the same, math is useless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by roxrkool, posted 01-07-2005 12:53 AM roxrkool has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by roxrkool, posted 01-08-2005 1:49 AM coffee_addict has replied
 Message 25 by PecosGeorge, posted 01-26-2005 4:36 PM coffee_addict has not replied

  
roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 7 of 36 (174932)
01-08-2005 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by mike the wiz
01-07-2005 8:40 AM


Thanks for your answer, Mike. I have a few more questions.
Were you finally convinced through discussion or by TV or your own research? Were you firmly closed against the idea of an old earth or always open to it? How do you feel about your position now - spiritually-speaking?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by mike the wiz, posted 01-07-2005 8:40 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 8 of 36 (174933)
01-08-2005 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by coffee_addict
01-07-2005 10:40 PM


So Lam, you knew at a young age that the story of Noah was illogical at best (I did, too). Did you discuss this discovery with your family? And if you did, how did they take it?
Also, did that lead to your current state of religious belief (or non-belief)? Sorry, I can't remember if you are a religious or non-religious person.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by coffee_addict, posted 01-07-2005 10:40 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by coffee_addict, posted 01-08-2005 2:29 AM roxrkool has replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 9 of 36 (174939)
01-08-2005 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by roxrkool
01-08-2005 1:49 AM


Hell, no! Let just say that the last time I told my parents that I might not have the faith to get confirmed (Catholic), they threatened to disown me.
I am now an atheist who looks like a really good and devout Catholic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by roxrkool, posted 01-08-2005 1:49 AM roxrkool has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by roxrkool, posted 01-08-2005 10:37 PM coffee_addict has not replied

  
roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 10 of 36 (175124)
01-08-2005 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by coffee_addict
01-08-2005 2:29 AM


ahahahaa I like that!
I've been playing the same game with my mother - a very devout Mexican Catholic woman.
She wouldn't disown me, but she would kill herself with worry about my everlasting soul. While I don't pretend to be devout, I do what needs to be done for my mom's sake. Dad's a Buddhist so I'm okay on that front.
This message has been edited by roxrkool, 01-08-2005 22:41 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by coffee_addict, posted 01-08-2005 2:29 AM coffee_addict has not replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 36 (175311)
01-09-2005 7:02 PM


My situation is very similar to Mike's. I have not made the transition form YEC to OEC, however for the past year or two I no longer consider myself a YEC. I am stuck somewhere in between--an agnostic, per se. My detachment from YECism is a direct result of independent research and exhaustive discussion on various scientific (largely geological) topics on forums (especially ) and the general exchange of ideas and criticisms.
The most significant problem which is largely responsible for leading me away from YECism is from my research in radiogenic isotope geology. An interval of accelerated radioisotopic decay is inhrerent to any hypothesis suggesting a shorter geologic time scale (such as the genesis catastrophe). However, unless accelerated decay implies a relative decrease in the amount of heat per unit volume of decayed material, the amount of decay required (and hence the amount of heat produced) for the during the event is ridiculous. Furthermore, even more relevant in this light, is the distribution of the earth's most significant heat producing radioisotopes in the earth. If the earth's most significant heat producing radioisotopes were concentrated in the mantle or core, it would be less of a problem. However, this is not the case as U, K, Th, are all lithophile elements; tending to concentrate in the earths crust and lithosphere. This is basically the worst place for excessive heat to be produced if we want fossil evidence of flora and fauna to persist past the Cambrian, let alone the Paleozoic--or if we even want to have fossil preservation possible at all during such a momentous heat flux.
My reason for not coming to accept and believe in the 4.6 Ga earth is because I am a very difficult person to come to a confident conclusion on such an ultimate. I am stubborn in my philosophies. I still see possibility (albeit implausibility) for a younger earth. However, I am confident that the earth is not ~6000 years old, or even close to that age.
This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 01-09-2005 19:04 AM

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by roxrkool, posted 01-11-2005 8:48 PM TrueCreation has replied

  
caligola2
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 36 (175851)
01-11-2005 12:16 PM


Sorry for the ignorance, but could someone explain to me the what is the terms "YEC" AND "OEC"?
This message has been edited by caligola2, 01-11-2005 19:20 AM

Replies to this message:
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 Message 14 by JonF, posted 01-11-2005 2:04 PM caligola2 has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 13 of 36 (175855)
01-11-2005 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by caligola2
01-11-2005 12:16 PM


YEC and OEC
Young earth creationist and old earth creationist.
This is probably the biggest point of departure in the creationist camps. However, after discussing things with a number of them for awhile it appears that there are no two that hold the same views. Within each of the above camps there are many variations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by caligola2, posted 01-11-2005 12:16 PM caligola2 has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 14 of 36 (175899)
01-11-2005 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by caligola2
01-11-2005 12:16 PM


OT: creationist "kinds"
"YEC" and "OEC"?
One persons classification of the various varieties of creationist can be found at The Creation/Evolution Continuum.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by caligola2, posted 01-11-2005 12:16 PM caligola2 has not replied

  
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6873 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 15 of 36 (175908)
01-11-2005 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by roxrkool
01-07-2005 12:53 AM


young earth?
Can't be.
In the beginning God created....
Who's beginning? And why dark and covered in water?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by roxrkool, posted 01-07-2005 12:53 AM roxrkool has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by roxrkool, posted 01-11-2005 8:51 PM PecosGeorge has replied

  
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