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Author Topic:   Ignorant Creationists vs. Knowledgeable Evolutionists
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 121 of 196 (160782)
11-17-2004 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by NosyNed
11-14-2004 1:07 AM


Re: Questions and answers
It seems possible that she really doesn't get a lot of what you are saying. It is also possible that she is using the questions as a way of focussing on some things you haven't thought through.
In any case, when you are asked questions what is your problem with answering them? Frequently we don't understand each other and it takes a lot of back and forth to clearify it. I think that's better than assuming we do understand or putting words in another's mouth.
As an example, we have had whole threads attempting to clarify what "complexity" is and no one has defined it yet. Therefore when you use the word we are left with a hole in the communication.
She asked me to clarify message 100. I clarified in message 113. Then instead of responding directly to either message she wants my clarification clarified. This woman is impossible to dialog sense with. She needs moderated, not me. Complexity is a simple word. The context of where it is used should be sufficient to know how it is used. The same is true with the words I've used here. It's not me that needs to "think through." It's Schraf who needs to read and think through WHAT I SAID, which was nothing at all so profoundly complicated that it warrants all this fuss.
This message has been edited by buzsaw, 11-17-2004 10:25 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by NosyNed, posted 11-14-2004 1:07 AM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by NosyNed, posted 11-17-2004 10:44 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 122 of 196 (160788)
11-17-2004 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by nator
11-17-2004 12:34 AM


Re: Where is the conflict?
If you don't have any more details, cannot answer any of my questions of clarification, or don't have anything at all further to say, then is the problem that I am asking the questions or is the problem that you don't have any answers to them?
I have no more details regarding my statements. If you care to refute any of them, go for it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by nator, posted 11-17-2004 12:34 AM nator has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 123 of 196 (160793)
11-17-2004 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Buzsaw
11-17-2004 10:18 PM


Re: Questions and answers
No, Buz, "complexity" is not a simple word. Without a precise definition of it the discussion can not continue. When someone talks in quantitative terms about something they have to supply a way to actually calculate the quantities involved. No one, you included, has supplied that.
I read over the exchange and you are not clear. There are lots of ways of interpreting what you said. What we find when we keep asking questions is that you don't know exactly what you mean. If you did you could just explain.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Buzsaw, posted 11-17-2004 10:18 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Buzsaw, posted 11-17-2004 11:07 PM NosyNed has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 124 of 196 (160795)
11-17-2004 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by PaulK
11-13-2004 5:19 AM


Re: Where is the conflict?
Here's a basic fact about evolutionary theory Buz. Everything animal or plant should be a "complete" animal or plant. How could it be otherwise ?
If everything existing is complete, lacking nothing for reproduction or survival, what on earth is in the process of evolving now? Even the simplest living things observed are quite complicated and fulfilling their individual functions in their ecosystems to make up the ecosphere.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by PaulK, posted 11-13-2004 5:19 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by PaulK, posted 11-18-2004 2:28 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 125 of 196 (160797)
11-17-2004 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by NosyNed
11-17-2004 10:44 PM


Re: Questions and answers
No, Buz, "complexity" is not a simple word. Without a precise definition of it the discussion can not continue. When someone talks in quantitative terms about something they have to supply a way to actually calculate the quantities involved. No one, you included, has supplied that.
I read over the exchange and you are not clear. There are lots of ways of interpreting what you said. What we find when we keep asking questions is that you don't know exactly what you mean. If you did you could just explain.
Then Schraf should specify exactly which word she doesn't understand in the context and what her problem is that she doesn't understand what I have said. Why can't I make some statements and simply let them stand as stated so long as they are not false. She hasn't shown any of my statements to be false, nor even tried. She wants to draw me into science debates and that is not the purpose/topic of the thread nor the intent of my statements.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by NosyNed, posted 11-17-2004 10:44 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by NosyNed, posted 11-17-2004 11:14 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 139 by nator, posted 11-18-2004 4:22 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 126 of 196 (160800)
11-17-2004 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Buzsaw
11-17-2004 11:07 PM


Re: Questions and answers
Then Schraf can try to help you see what she needs to understand. We'll wait then.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Buzsaw, posted 11-17-2004 11:07 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Buzsaw, posted 11-17-2004 11:22 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 127 of 196 (160803)
11-17-2004 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by PaulK
11-13-2004 5:19 AM


Re: Where is the conflict?
Here's a basic fact about evolutionary theory Buz. Everything animal or plant should be a "complete" animal or plant. How could it be otherwise ?
If it is transitional, would you consider it's evolution to be complete? What on earth would you say is in the process of evolving today? Even the simplest organisms seem to be quite complicated when analyzed, fulfilling their particular function in their ecosystems to make up the ecosphere.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by PaulK, posted 11-13-2004 5:19 AM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by jar, posted 11-17-2004 11:20 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 128 of 196 (160804)
11-17-2004 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Buzsaw
11-17-2004 11:16 PM


Re: Where is the conflict?
If it is transitional, would you consider it's evolution to be complete?
Nope.There isn't a complete critter. Everything is constantly evolving.
What on earth would you say is in the process of evolving today?
everything.
Even the simplest organisms seem to be quite complicated when analyzed, fulfilling their particular function in their ecosystems to make up the ecosphere.
First, complexity has nothing to do with evolution. And as conditions change, some critters will do well, others will become extinct. That's the filter.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Buzsaw, posted 11-17-2004 11:16 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Buzsaw, posted 11-17-2004 11:27 PM jar has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 129 of 196 (160805)
11-17-2004 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by NosyNed
11-17-2004 11:14 PM


Re: Questions and answers
Then Schraf can try to help you see what she needs to understand. We'll wait then.
OK Ned. Fair enough. I'll be outa town most of tomorrow. Take care.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by NosyNed, posted 11-17-2004 11:14 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 130 of 196 (160807)
11-17-2004 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by jar
11-17-2004 11:20 PM


Re: Where is the conflict?
Nope.There isn't a complete critter. Everything is constantly evolving.
Why then do most living things basically remain the same for alleged millions of years?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by jar, posted 11-17-2004 11:20 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by jar, posted 11-17-2004 11:31 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 131 of 196 (160809)
11-17-2004 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Buzsaw
11-17-2004 11:27 PM


Re: Where is the conflict?
They don't. They change, evolve.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Buzsaw, posted 11-17-2004 11:27 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Buzsaw, posted 11-17-2004 11:33 PM jar has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 132 of 196 (160810)
11-17-2004 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by jar
11-17-2004 11:31 PM


Re: Where is the conflict?
What has aged/early croc evolved into?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by jar, posted 11-17-2004 11:31 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by jar, posted 11-17-2004 11:36 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 133 of 196 (160814)
11-17-2004 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Buzsaw
11-17-2004 11:33 PM


Re: Where is the conflict?
Modern crocodiles, aligators and camans.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Buzsaw, posted 11-17-2004 11:33 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Buzsaw, posted 11-17-2004 11:40 PM jar has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 134 of 196 (160815)
11-17-2004 11:40 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by jar
11-17-2004 11:36 PM


Re: Where is the conflict?
1. What improvements are verified for croc?
2. What fossil evidence do we have for verification that other reptiles have evolved from croc?
3. Why have some crocs allegedly evolved into other animals and the rest remained crocs?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by jar, posted 11-17-2004 11:36 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by jar, posted 11-17-2004 11:47 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 135 of 196 (160817)
11-17-2004 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Buzsaw
11-17-2004 11:40 PM


Re: Where is the conflict?
1. What improvements are verified for croc?
What the hell does improvement have to do with Evolution?
2. What fossil evidence do we have for verification that other reptiles have evolved from croc?
Great idea for a thread but it has little to do with this one.
3. Why have some crocs allegedly evolved into other animals and the rest remained crocs?
There is no purpose to evolution, it simply happens. Change goes on all the time. If the random change helps things survive to breed, then it gets passed on. So some changes helped earlier species evolve into other critters.
Pointless, purposeless evolution. GOD's system.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Buzsaw, posted 11-17-2004 11:40 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Buzsaw, posted 11-17-2004 11:57 PM jar has replied

  
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