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Author Topic:   Why Lie? (Re: Evolution frauds and hoaxes)
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 271 of 346 (471601)
06-17-2008 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by Jester4kicks
06-17-2008 2:31 PM


Re: Flea bitten
The idea Jefferson was referring to did not originate with him and does not correspond to the modern concept of separation of Church and State. The term originated with the Anabaptists (actually further back with the Donatists), and it is significant Jefferson uses this term in a letter to the Baptists. It's far removed from the modern interpretation of the phrase.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Jester4kicks, posted 06-17-2008 2:31 PM Jester4kicks has not replied

Dont Be a Flea
Member (Idle past 5762 days)
Posts: 79
From: Merritt Island FL
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 272 of 346 (471602)
06-17-2008 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by Alasdair
06-17-2008 1:23 PM


Re: Flea bitten
Why are you not angry at the creationist websites that gave you information about Nebraska man for misrepresenting the scientific community's opinions on the incident, and its significance?
I am not angry at anyone. I am simply questioning. Did I ever say I was angry? Passionate maybe, but angry, no. I was insulted numerous times on this thread and with the exception of one person agreeing with me, I am alone on this tread. Did I ever insult any of you? I don’t think so.
Why aren't you upset at the creationist lie to you?
We are not talking about creationist lies on this thread I don’t see how finding lies in one thing takes them away from another. Sort of like . .I killed a man, but the guy in the cell next to me killed 2 men, therefore I’m innocent. ???????
You appear to be biased by now
Of course I’m questioning evolution and the holes therein. If you are an evolutionist or Darwinist, then you are biased against a creationist.
instead of admitting your error and getting angry at the creationist lies, you now go off on rants about how science doesn't have a monopoly on truth (it never claimed to do so). What's the dealio?
I am not angry nor am I ranting. We aren’t discussing creationist lies again, but you may submit that topic to the admins for approval and we can start a new thread. Perhaps I should be replacing all the terms “science” and “scientist” with “evolution” and “Darwinists”. That is who I have the real issue with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Alasdair, posted 06-17-2008 1:23 PM Alasdair has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Alasdair, posted 06-17-2008 2:53 PM Dont Be a Flea has not replied
 Message 286 by grandfather raven, posted 06-17-2008 3:58 PM Dont Be a Flea has not replied
 Message 327 by Kapyong, posted 06-17-2008 6:44 PM Dont Be a Flea has replied

Dont Be a Flea
Member (Idle past 5762 days)
Posts: 79
From: Merritt Island FL
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 273 of 346 (471604)
06-17-2008 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Coyote
06-17-2008 11:22 AM


Re: Five forged fossils
Calm the pack down there Coyote.
I will not drop Nebraska man, It was a misrepresentation of the proof of evolution. Call it a mistake, hoax, uh-oh or whatever. I never said that everyone always deliberately forges everything all the time. I think evolutionists are so eager to prove what they believe, and they need notoriety and funding, that they will rush to a conclusion with insufficient data.
Working on more fossil record misques.
You guys must have awesome jobs to be able to post up all hours of the day. I have trouble juggling this forum with every day life. It may take me longer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Coyote, posted 06-17-2008 11:22 AM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Alasdair, posted 06-17-2008 2:58 PM Dont Be a Flea has replied
 Message 279 by Alasdair, posted 06-17-2008 3:17 PM Dont Be a Flea has replied

Dont Be a Flea
Member (Idle past 5762 days)
Posts: 79
From: Merritt Island FL
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 274 of 346 (471605)
06-17-2008 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Alasdair
06-17-2008 2:24 PM


Re: Flea bitten
Im so glad we both beleive in THOR!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Alasdair, posted 06-17-2008 2:24 PM Alasdair has not replied

Dont Be a Flea
Member (Idle past 5762 days)
Posts: 79
From: Merritt Island FL
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 275 of 346 (471606)
06-17-2008 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by Jester4kicks
06-17-2008 2:31 PM


Re: Flea bitten
Hey there Jester,
This really isnt the thread, and I dont want to piss of the Admins, so we can drop the church-state arguement. Cool?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Jester4kicks, posted 06-17-2008 2:31 PM Jester4kicks has not replied

Alasdair
Member (Idle past 5749 days)
Posts: 143
Joined: 05-13-2005


Message 276 of 346 (471608)
06-17-2008 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by Dont Be a Flea
06-17-2008 2:38 PM


Re: Flea bitten
We are not talking about creationist lies on this thread I don’t see how finding lies in one thing takes them away from another. Sort of like . .I killed a man, but the guy in the cell next to me killed 2 men, therefore I’m innocent. ???????
Way to completely miss the point. There was no fraud about Nebraska man. there was no lying about Nebraska man.
The only lie or fraud here was the creationist website who misrepresented the incident.
Why isn't that being questioned?
Do you have any more "evolutionist frauds" to share with us?
Of course I’m questioning evolution and the holes therein. If you are an evolutionist or Darwinist, then you are biased against a creationist.
You're completely ignoring a website that completely lied to you after going after evolutionists for "lying" (which it turns out they didn't.)
This is true bias.
You're not just questioning. You are clearly biased against the theory of evolution.
If you aren't, prove it. you are the OP of this thread - share with us more evolutionist frauds and lies than Nebraska man. You said there are a lot, right?
Do you accept that Nebraska man is a non issue now that you know the facts?
These two questions have yet to be answered.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Dont Be a Flea, posted 06-17-2008 2:38 PM Dont Be a Flea has not replied

Alasdair
Member (Idle past 5749 days)
Posts: 143
Joined: 05-13-2005


Message 277 of 346 (471609)
06-17-2008 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Dont Be a Flea
06-17-2008 2:43 PM


Re: Five forged fossils
You are a dishonest, dishonest person.
All that happened with Nebraska man is that a scientist found a tooth. He hypothesized that it could have belonged to a hominid. A popular science magazine illustrated this. This was not published in a scientific journal. He did not herald it as proof of evolution. 3 years later, scientists deduced that it was a pig's tooth, and that settled the question of if it was a hominid tooth.
A scientist made a hypothesis, the hypothesis was then falsified. That is all there is to it. This is the scientific method. To call this fraud or a hoax is an extremely dishonest thing to do. I hope you are just a troll.
Edited by Alasdair, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Dont Be a Flea, posted 06-17-2008 2:43 PM Dont Be a Flea has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Dont Be a Flea, posted 06-17-2008 3:57 PM Alasdair has replied

dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 278 of 346 (471610)
06-17-2008 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by Jester4kicks
06-17-2008 2:31 PM


Re: Flea bitten
The phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment of the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state. The phrase was then quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1947.
Jefferson did not originate the idea, only that specific wording to describe it. His life-long friend, James Madison, had described that very same idea in his Memorial and Remonstrance a few years before Madison would draft the First Amendment.
In my reposting of that pamphlet at No webpage found at provided URL: http://members.aol.com/dwise1/rel_lib/memorial.html, I note:
quote:
The Religious Right tries to explain away church-state separation by claiming that Thomas Jefferson had invented it ad hoc in a letter written circa 1810. However, we find that very same principle presented and expounded upon here in 1785 by the very same man who would draft the First Amendment a few years later, James Madison. True, we do use Jefferson's wording of a "wall of separation", yet Jefferson's "wall" is the exact same thing as Madison's "great Barrier which defends the rights of the people" which you will read about here.
Let us give credit where it is due.
Edited by dwise1, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Jester4kicks, posted 06-17-2008 2:31 PM Jester4kicks has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by randman, posted 06-17-2008 3:49 PM dwise1 has not replied

Alasdair
Member (Idle past 5749 days)
Posts: 143
Joined: 05-13-2005


Message 279 of 346 (471611)
06-17-2008 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Dont Be a Flea
06-17-2008 2:43 PM


Re: Five forged fossils
I think evolutionists are so eager to prove what they believe, and they need notoriety and funding, that they will rush to a conclusion with insufficient data.
Yes, so eager that they rush ahead to a conclusion with insufficient data...
Sort of like how you present Nebraska man as a fraud without reading into what actually happened, right?
You're aware that "rushing into conclusions", falsifying data, misrepresenting facts, etc WILL be found out in science and you'll lose your reputation and research grants, right? It's not something that science system encourages, but is actively discouraged. Especially since many scientists have made their names by overturning long standing theories/hypotheses.
I don't know why I'm replying, I'm pretty sure you are a troll.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Dont Be a Flea, posted 06-17-2008 2:43 PM Dont Be a Flea has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by BeagleBob, posted 06-17-2008 3:29 PM Alasdair has not replied
 Message 284 by Dont Be a Flea, posted 06-17-2008 3:56 PM Alasdair has replied

BeagleBob
Member (Idle past 5676 days)
Posts: 81
Joined: 11-21-2007


Message 280 of 346 (471613)
06-17-2008 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by Alasdair
06-17-2008 3:17 PM


Re: Five forged fossils
quote:
Yes, so eager that they rush ahead to a conclusion with insufficient data...
Sort of like how you present Nebraska man as a fraud without reading into what actually happened, right?
You're aware that "rushing into conclusions", falsifying data, misrepresenting facts, etc WILL be found out in science and you'll lose your reputation and research grants, right? It's not something that science system encourages, but is actively discouraged. Especially since many scientists have made their names by overturning long standing theories/hypotheses.
I don't know why I'm replying, I'm pretty sure you are a troll.
You know, hypothetically, what if these forums followed standard scientific practice and probated/banned those who engage in half-assed research, lies, or distortions in their posts?
It'd be an interesting sight to see, for sure.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Alasdair, posted 06-17-2008 3:17 PM Alasdair has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by kjsimons, posted 06-17-2008 3:38 PM BeagleBob has not replied

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 281 of 346 (471615)
06-17-2008 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by BeagleBob
06-17-2008 3:29 PM


Re: Five forged fossils
The problem you run into if you do that is that you end up with no more creationist posters.
Percy, the owner of this board, has been a bit more lenient with the non-evos so that the ratio of the board doesn't become 1000 to 1 evos to creos.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by BeagleBob, posted 06-17-2008 3:29 PM BeagleBob has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by randman, posted 06-17-2008 3:47 PM kjsimons has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 282 of 346 (471616)
06-17-2008 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by kjsimons
06-17-2008 3:38 PM


Re: Five forged fossils
Percy, the owner of this board, has been a bit more lenient with the non-evos so that the ratio of the board doesn't become 1000 to 1 evos to creos.
Maybe from his perspective, but I can guarantee you the other side of the debate considers the exact opposite to be the case. Not commenting negatively on board moderation, just pointing out that your post is an opinion and one not shared by the IDers and creationists here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by kjsimons, posted 06-17-2008 3:38 PM kjsimons has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 283 of 346 (471618)
06-17-2008 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by dwise1
06-17-2008 3:14 PM


Re: Flea bitten
Madison didn't originate it either. It stems from Anabaptist theology and has absolutely nothing to do with trying to keep the government from acknowledging God, nor keeping God out of the science curriculum.
Edit to add: just realized this was not the right thread for this. Sorry to all. Won't post anymore here on church/state separation.
Edited by randman, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by dwise1, posted 06-17-2008 3:14 PM dwise1 has not replied

Dont Be a Flea
Member (Idle past 5762 days)
Posts: 79
From: Merritt Island FL
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 284 of 346 (471620)
06-17-2008 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by Alasdair
06-17-2008 3:17 PM


Re: Five forged fossils
A troll? Like the mythological bridge guard?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Alasdair, posted 06-17-2008 3:17 PM Alasdair has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by Alasdair, posted 06-17-2008 4:01 PM Dont Be a Flea has not replied

Dont Be a Flea
Member (Idle past 5762 days)
Posts: 79
From: Merritt Island FL
Joined: 04-23-2008


Message 285 of 346 (471621)
06-17-2008 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Alasdair
06-17-2008 2:58 PM


Re: Five forged fossils
Alasdair, I would have never posted this thread if I didnt question evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Alasdair, posted 06-17-2008 2:58 PM Alasdair has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by Alasdair, posted 06-17-2008 4:04 PM Dont Be a Flea has not replied
 Message 291 by ramoss, posted 06-17-2008 4:39 PM Dont Be a Flea has not replied

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