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Author Topic:   Evolution != Atheism (re: the Rejection of Theism in Evolution)
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 151 of 178 (216577)
06-13-2005 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-13-2005 9:29 AM


Re: Literal interpretation
In doing so, evolution and theism are mutally exclusive.
Even if one has to interpret the Bible the way you say, your statement is still false. It would mean that evolution and Abrahamic Monotheism were mutually exclusive.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Siguiendo la verdad, posted 06-13-2005 9:29 AM Siguiendo la verdad has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 152 of 178 (216581)
06-13-2005 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-13-2005 8:33 AM


Re: Literal interpretation
quote:
You see, everything written in the bible has to be taken literally, which does not mean, for example, when psalms refers to trees clapping, that trees are actually behaving like humans and clapping their branches together like humans clap their hands. You would literally interpet that according to its context to be a poetic statement.
So, you should take everything written in the Bible literally except for the things you shouldn't.

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 153 of 178 (216600)
06-13-2005 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-13-2005 9:29 AM


Re: Literal interpretation
quote:
Interpreting the bible literally means interpreting it AS IT IS WRITTEN!
That can only be true if the Bible was written entirely literally with no figurative passages at all.
So which is it ? Does the Bible contain passages which should be read figuratively or should it all be read literally ? Please make your mind up and stop contradicting yourself.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Siguiendo la verdad
Inactive Member


Message 154 of 178 (216601)
06-13-2005 10:46 AM


Genesis
I just would like to also make clear that because I say that you must literally interpret and accept the Genesis account as historically true, I am not saying that one has to believe in a young earth or old earth or such things that are not explicitly stated in the bible itself or even implicitly stated.

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by jar, posted 06-13-2005 10:51 AM Siguiendo la verdad has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 155 of 178 (216603)
06-13-2005 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-13-2005 10:46 AM


Re: Genesis
So, should someone believe that GOD created everything we see?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Siguiendo la verdad, posted 06-13-2005 10:46 AM Siguiendo la verdad has replied

Replies to this message:
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Siguiendo la verdad
Inactive Member


Message 156 of 178 (216604)
06-13-2005 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by PaulK
06-13-2005 10:42 AM


Re: Literal interpretation
Figurative speech is a form of literature. If you interpret ANYTHING as it is written, then you would interpret a figure of speech as A FIGURE OF SPEECH, which is to interpret it literally.
Here is an article explaining, propably much better than I, what I am trying to say:
Page not found - Boundless

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Siguiendo la verdad
Inactive Member


Message 157 of 178 (216605)
06-13-2005 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by jar
06-13-2005 10:51 AM


Re: Genesis
Every material thing we see, yes, starting with the materials of anything constructed by man.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by jar, posted 06-13-2005 10:51 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by jar, posted 06-13-2005 11:03 AM Siguiendo la verdad has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 158 of 178 (216607)
06-13-2005 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-13-2005 10:59 AM


Re: Genesis
So if we believe that GOD created the universe, that's okay?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Siguiendo la verdad, posted 06-13-2005 10:59 AM Siguiendo la verdad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Siguiendo la verdad, posted 06-13-2005 7:48 PM jar has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5820 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 159 of 178 (216608)
06-13-2005 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-13-2005 8:33 AM


Re: Literal interpretation
You see, everything written in the bible has to be taken literally, which does not mean, for example, when psalms refers to trees clapping, that trees are actually behaving like humans and clapping their branches together like humans clap their hands. You would literally interpet that according to its context to be a poetic statement.
Yes, that's what I said. Now why is Genesis not poetics regarding the early days of the universe and man, written from the perspective of the author, though influenced by God to have a moral meaning?

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Siguiendo la verdad, posted 06-13-2005 8:33 AM Siguiendo la verdad has replied

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 160 of 178 (216622)
06-13-2005 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-13-2005 10:57 AM


Re: Literal interpretation
I read the article and it in no way states that non-literal readings are literal. So can you please stop contradicting yourself and tell me whether the Bible should be read entirely literally or if it contains passages that should be read figuratively instead.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Siguiendo la verdad, posted 06-13-2005 10:57 AM Siguiendo la verdad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Siguiendo la verdad, posted 06-13-2005 1:40 PM PaulK has replied

  
Siguiendo la verdad
Inactive Member


Message 161 of 178 (216647)
06-13-2005 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by PaulK
06-13-2005 11:49 AM


Re: Literal interpretation
I'm obviously not getting through to you.
I don't see a contradiction between interpreting the bible literally and literally interpreting a figurative verse.
For example: Jesus is the Lamb of God.
To interpret that literally, one would come to the interpretation that Jesus is the sacrafice that God requires. It is a figure of speech, but to interpret it literally would not mean Jesus has hooves and wool. So where is the confusion.
Here is a quote that, hopefully, will help:
our (Evangelical christians') aim in interpretation is to find out the meaning rather than to escape from it. We believe that although some passages are hard to understand, the basic message of the Bible is plain and public rather than esoteric and convoluted. To see why we think so, take a look at Isaiah 45:19, Isaiah 48:16 and John 18:20
So literal interpretation is discovering the true meaning of the scripture. A prophesy is interpreted as a prophesy, historical eyewitness account interpreted as historical eyewitness account, and so on according to proper interpretation of anything that is written.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by PaulK, posted 06-13-2005 11:49 AM PaulK has replied

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Siguiendo la verdad
Inactive Member


Message 162 of 178 (216651)
06-13-2005 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Silent H
06-13-2005 11:09 AM


Re: Literal interpretation
Follow these steps and then see if you have the same question:
1. The Bible is its own interpreter.
2. We must interpret the Bible literally-"as it is written".
3. The Bible is to be interpreted like any other book.
4. Obscure parts of the Bible are to be interpreted by the clearer parts.
5. The implicit is to be interpreted in light of the explicit.
6. The rules of logic govern what can reasonably be drawn or deduced from Scripture.
Private interpretation is not a license for subjectivism. The principle of private interpretation carries with it the obligation to seek the correct interpretation of the Bible. Though each biblial text may have multiple applications, it has only one correct meaning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Silent H, posted 06-13-2005 11:09 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by dsv, posted 06-13-2005 2:14 PM Siguiendo la verdad has replied
 Message 164 by Chiroptera, posted 06-13-2005 2:28 PM Siguiendo la verdad has replied
 Message 169 by Silent H, posted 06-13-2005 6:46 PM Siguiendo la verdad has replied
 Message 170 by sidelined, posted 06-13-2005 7:03 PM Siguiendo la verdad has replied

  
dsv
Member (Idle past 4724 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 163 of 178 (216658)
06-13-2005 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-13-2005 1:48 PM


Re: Literal interpretation
You're interpreting someone else's interpretation, so how can you deny another the same right? Shouldn't Jar or whoever be able to interpret it how they like?
Even if you believe the Bible was the inspiration of God, there is no escaping that it was eventually written by men who interpreted the information.
From approximately 12 centuries before the Christian Era through 20 centuries since (the former for the Old Testament and the latter for both the Old and New Testament), what we call the Bible went through a very thorough evolution through construction, correction and restoration. Who knows what is human interpretation, poetry, fiction, God-inspired, direct observation, scenarios, etc. etc.
There are something like 1,500 languages and dialects into which the Holy Bible, in its entirety or in portions, has been translated. Unless you're reading the Old Testament in Hebrew and Aramaic and the New Testament in Greek, I fail to see how you can be the ultimate end-all judge of what is and is not a correct interpretation of the Bible.
I feel that everyone who wants to use the Bible in some form of understanding and enlightenment is free to interpret it however they see fit.
edited for typo, oops.
This message has been edited by dsv, Monday, June 13, 2005 02:16 PM

This message is a reply to:
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 164 of 178 (216662)
06-13-2005 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-13-2005 1:48 PM


Re: Literal interpretation
Rule #1 and rule #3 appear to contradict each other.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Siguiendo la verdad
Inactive Member


Message 165 of 178 (216666)
06-13-2005 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by dsv
06-13-2005 2:14 PM


Re: Literal interpretation
I refer you to my previous post for rules of interpretation.

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