Question.... (Processes of Logic)

NOTE ADDED 5/11/03: BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE DISCUSSION, on 5/11/03 the title of this topic was changed from "Question...." to what I hope is the better "Question.... (Processes of Logic)" - Adminnemooseus.
-----Why do Evolutionists sometimes get uptight and overly defensive when you ask harder questions concerning creation and God?Do Evolutionists believe...Where is Heaven, if there is one? Is there a Hell?Does some type of god rate a mention anywhere?[This message has been edited by Prancin, 05-05-2003][This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 05-11-2003]

Hello Prancin,These questions have nothing to do with evolution. While many evolutionists would ask 'Where is the evidence?', many others are Christians or Buddhists or Muslims, etc, and follow the beliefs of their religion without seeing any conflict with evolution.Essentially, the only ones with a problem with evolution are the fundamentalists, who believe the Bible (or Koran) literally, word for word, and insist on a 6-day creation and the truth of the Adam and Eve story.Mike.

Evolutionists may get uptight when you ask these things because the clear implication is that you think all evolutionists are atheists. This is not the case, as shown by the large number of theistic evolutionists here on this board.That said, I am an atheist, and have no trouble with your questions: Neither place exists. If conciousness continues after this life, there's no way to test it. If it does continue, my own personal belief is that it does so in a way incomprehesible to living people. So it's hardly fruitful to try and talk about it. This life is the one where we see results, so it is this life to be concerned with, not the next. From a psychological perspective, religion (gods, etc) is very interesting indeed. Evolution has equipped the mind to come to conclusions based on scarce or absent information. I believe that this gives rise to supernatural, superstitious belief.Is there evidence for the actions of a god in this universe? I don't believe so - at least, not the kind of god that would be at all moral or intelligent (and worthy of worship). Rather, the state of the universe is one of "pitiless indifference" as Dawkins puts it. What kind of god would allow such a state?[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 05-05-2003]

Hi Pracin,I'm an evolutionary creationist (I prefer this over theistic evolutionist)... and no I don't get uptight when you ask me questions about God. Go ahead shoot.------------------
"Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

I actually think heaven will be on Earth in a more corporeal version than we might expect. I have heard a lot either way. There is seemingly unmistakable rhetoric in the Bible saying things like 'lake of fire' etc. but, on the other hand the actual Hebrew word for hell is the name of a place outside of Jerusalem where the Jews burnt their trash. Is it a metaphor? Who knows, I sure don't. The way I look at it, I'll be spending more time in heaven than the alternative so it doesn't matter much. By all means, just don't go looking for physical evidence to prove his existance.------------------
"Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

by the way... my answer to crash and his kin about God is here------------------
"Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

'Neither place exists. If conciousness continues after this life, there's no way to test it.'this is simply your opinion though. when you say neither place exists
you can't know that for sure unless you have been deadEvolution has equipped the mind to come to conclusions based on scarce or absent information. I believe that this gives rise to supernatural, superstitious belief.are you suggesting evolution has a mind of its own , and why would it equip the mind with conclusions which are scarce or absent what purpose would that surve in evolution

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this is simply your opinion though. when you say neither place exists you can't know that for sure unless you have been dead

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Here's a better way of phrasing it.About ten minutes after death, electrical activity in the brain ceases. After that, the body is essentially a bag of meat.There's nothing to indicate that anything else happens at all. So why should Heaven or Hell even be entertained as more than an idle musing?------------------
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Dan Carroll

'There's nothing to indicate that anything else happens at all. So why should Heaven or Hell even be entertained as more than an idle musing?'what about near death experiences ?also , is not the life more than the body , just because scientists can't trace the soul doesn't mean you should dismiss the possibilities,after all death is still one of the great mysteries.

Mike the wiz, feel free to believe anything you want to. But don't expect to convince anyone that your beiefs are correct or even reasonable if you cannot provide supporting evidence. Your evidence for a soul is? Your evidence for the existence of a heaven is? Your evidence for the existence of a hell is?The current evidence suggests that "near death experiences" are a comon post-event perception of the experience of oxygen starvation to the brain.

'Mike the wiz, feel free to believe anything you want to. But don't expect to convince anyone that your beiefs are correct or even reasonable if you cannot provide supporting evidence. Your evidence for a soul is? Your evidence for the existence of a heaven is? Your evidence for the existence of a hell is?'i cannot offer any evidence to you wj , i am sorry if i seemed to impose my beliefs on you , this is not my intention , i simply dont think crashfrog should impose his belief that there is no heaven or hell , like he knows something i dont.as for n.d.e's i have no evidence , but i have heard many cases , and there is surely more to them than your little scientific explanation

Mike the wiz, I'm sure that Crashfrog's belief that heaven and hell do not exist is more firmly and logically founded than you own personal belief. The lack of evidence for existence of heaven and hell or any other theological imagined place means that he does not find it necessary to believe in the existence of such places. I am similarly disposed to not believe in the existence of the restaurant at the end of the universe because of the lack of evidence for its existence. And the rather high price for entrees.

I can replace "soul" in the above with anything, anything at all. Therefore there is no way to dismiss anything. Therefore we have to spend mental effort (and more resources) persuing everything. Without a filter to decide what is worth some effort you will waste time and resources on wild goose chases.Who says demons don't cause disease --- you can't dismiss it. Who says voodoo isn't how someone was killed, you can't dismiss it. and so on forever with no progress being made.

well thats the difference isn't it, you seek evidence and i dont.
And exactly what is the proof or evidence against heaven and hell, can you disprove these ?'And the rather high price for entrees.'
what do you mean by this?

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'And the rather high price for entrees.'
what do you mean by this?

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entrees = (plural form of) dish served before the main course at a restaurant.price = money or other consideration for which a thing is bought or sold.high = of great or specified upward extent. Adjective modifying the noun "price".Context: the statement refers to the preceding sentence and the allusion to a restaurant. It was offered as an additional reason to not believe in the existence of a restaurant at the end of the universe. However it offers a paradox because knowledge of the existence of entrees, and their price, from an argued non-existent restaurant would be evidence for the existence of such a restaurant. Therefore the evidence offered is contrary to the position which it was given as support for.In summary, it was a joke.So, take up the challenge of providing the proof or evidence against the existence of the restaurant at the end of the universe. If evidence or proof is of no interest to you, why don't you also believe in the restaurant at the end of the universe? I have told you about it, do you believe it exists?